Re: Shill Bidding and Second Chance Offers

[John McEwen <moparrr@xxxxxxx>]

Hi Dean:

Thanks for your comments.  I didn't post names etc. because on some 
lists of which I am a member, even doing what I have done so far is 
forbidden.  They are desperately worried that they will be sued - 
given the militaristic legal situation in the US.  I also didn't want 
to charge Larry with directly fiddling with the auction.  By not 
broadcasting his name or the exact circumstances, I felt that only a 
few people would be bothered to search for the specifics.

What I don't understand is someone placing such a high bid on a lot, 
then refusing to honor the bid immediately after the sale.  It has 
all the earmarks of a buddy helping a buddy - especially when they 
both appear to be in the same business.

I've sniped for years with mixed results.  At one time, I was 
virtually certain of success especially after I perfected the art of 
placing a bid with 3 seconds to go.  However, in my other hobby - 
which is the collecting of medals and orders of Austria - I've been 
getting seriously whacked by a flurry of snipers.  Of course, I'm 
bidding in their backyard on Austrian eBay.   I've tried a new 
approach which is to place a substantial bid with  a bit of time to 
go - enough so that the last minute bidders can see the level early 
or be pushed aside by repeated "You have been outbid" notices.  It 
chases off a few and reduces the auction fever.  It also throws off 
the snipers who often must re-think their bids.  As most of them use 
telephone modems, they don't have time to make more than one bid 
before the auction ends - especially if I follow up my first, "clear 
the air" bid with a raise at about one minute to go.  I win some and 
I lose some - but I'm happier at what I win and am more consistent 
now.

Yes, I dealt with Larry and have heard all sorts of good reports.  I 
emailed him earlier in the sale when the lot had sat for 4 or 5 days 
without a bid.  I asked him if he had a Buy it Now Price and 
suggested that he could revise the lot and I would pay the BIN.  I 
didn't get an answer after a day, so I made my own bid.  You saw the 
results.  It could also have been a buddy "helping out" without being 
asked - but it seems very unlikely at such a high level of bidding. 
The final issue for me is that I don't need the hood ornament which 
is where the value of the lot really lies.

I considered your suggestion regarding paying the $63 bid and will 
probably consider it - however, I can't do so through eBay.  There is 
no system for counter-offers in the Second Chance setup.  Larry seems 
to want to deal strictly through eBay so I have little choice.  I 
could email him and offer him something for the medallions and tell 
him to keep the hood ornament.  That might be the sensible thing to 
do.

In any event, thanks for your continuing support.  Are you still on 
track for Edmonton in the next two weeks or so?

John



> John,
>
> Firstly, I don't think it's any big deal to post an eBay item number
> or the seller's name.  Anyone who uses eBay can find it in a hurry
> based on limited information - it took me no time to track this one
> down.
>
> I've dealt with this particular seller before, and received nothing
> short of stellar service from him.  He even threw in an extra NOS air
> cleaner decal for me at no charge.  John, I see you have posted some
> positive feedback for him very recently as well.
>
> Considering the extensive and nearly flawless feedback histories of
> both the seller and winning bidder, it seems highly doubtful that any
> malicious activity is going on here.  Perhaps he has more than one
> set of these, and would rather sell to you directly instead of going
> through the eBay listing process (and fees) again.
>
> We can only speculate on that, but at any rate, here's what I would
> do in your situation.  Accept the second chance offer, but state that
> you are only willing to pay $62.00.  This is what you WOULD have paid
> if not for the participation of the winning bidder.  If that isn't
> acceptable to him, then he can put it on eBay and leave it to chance.
>
> Another tactic to try is sniping (last minute bidding).  Some don't
> think this is fair or ethical, but the auction isn't over until the
> last second ticks off the clock.  This is the ONLY way I bid on eBay.
> This doesn't allow shillers (or any other bidders, for that matter,
> except fellow snipers) any time to spring into action.
>
> I've scored some great deals this way, but at times have also lost
> out to other snipers with slightly deeper pockets than I.  That's how
> it is sometimes.
>
> Dean Reitan
> Calgary, AB, Canada
> 1972 Matador 2-door, 304
> -----
> Here's an interesting coincidence.  Some of you will recall that I am
> searching for Barcelona medallions for my '78 Coupe.   I was notified
> by several attentive listers of a lot that was on eBay.  I
> subsequently bid on this lot.  With four hours to go I was the sole
> bidder at the opening bid price.
>
> I watched the item for a while, then another bid was placed.  This
> was followed by  two more bids from another bidder, neither of which
> beat the second bidder.  By now, a considerable amount of money was
> on the table.  At this point, with about 10 minutes to go, I made a
> (in my opinion) very high bid - which failed to win.  I let the item
> go as I was not going to pay for three items when I needed only two
> of them - particularly as I considered the price too high.
>
> Just now - some 4 hours after the sale, I've been offered a "Second
> Chance" at my too-high bid.
>
> I'm not going to suggest that a shill was working on this but I have
> my suspicions.  The high bidder appears to be a dealer in old car
> bits as is the seller.
>
> I'd like the opinions of the list.  Note that I have purposely not
> identified the seller, or the lot number - and don't wish to bring
> that information forward to the list in view of the legality of such
> a revelation.
>
> John
>
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