With few exceptions (and there were a few) American and European cars of the 70's and 80's sucked, I think. Labor, quality, and corporate decisions to stick their head in the ground regarding emissions "just add more hoses". Clearly, we would not have 300 - 500 hp street cars without the real effort and work that went into efficient drivelines -- and efficient means power and cleanliness. I wish: AMC had not squandered it's Nash resources. That it hadn't tried to complete with the "big 3". I always imagined that it could have stuck to rock solid boring Americans and Classics (or Vixens or whatever) and a small stream of halo cars (Rogues, AMXs, etc) based upon those 'boring' chassis. Addressed the labor (and quality problems), kept Grandpa Nash's quality. That frugal mindset spawned the 199/232, clearly one of the best things they ever did. Competing with the big 3 was stupid and fatal and obvious. They did before and should have continued to dance around the dinosaur's feet -- small, frugal reliable cars. A 4-cyl "232" with a turbo and an appropriately scaled trans and rear axle (that stupid rear axle drove car design, AMCs and everyones, for far too long) in a 2000 lb car (with another 500 lbs of metal for crash worthiness) would have kicked serious butt and no one would have cared what it looked like or who made it. That same chassis without the turbo would have been a nice commuter car. The halo cars could have got the new-design motors all gussied up with performance, and a year or three migrated into the product line. AMC style. The fact that AMC gets compared product by product to the other three biggies is exactly the problem. They were 1/10th their size, it was silly to emulate the same product line. AMC should have made what AMC was good at. That stupid heavy Hotchkiss rear design that all the American manu's stuck with was a major design limiting factor. Rear drive fine, but sheesh, does it have to be that same 1950 boat anchor? There's all sorts of designs, nearly all of them better. But no, we're tooled for that and don't wanna change. Oh well. _______________________________________________ AMC-list mailing list AMC-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx http://list.amc-list.com/listinfo.cgi/amc-list-amc-list.com