Re: [AMC-list] chinese amc emblems, jeeps, muscle cars oh my

[Marc Montoni <Freedom@xxxxxxxx>]

"Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> said:


>A case could be made for cheap American crap also, like some modern automobiles. 


Actually I think American automotive brands generally are better built than most of the imports and captive imports.  I think Americans are more willing to forgive the ferrigners for their quality lapses and are unwilling to forgive American lapses.

Here's a great example of the typical American (as opposed to Rambler American) disconnect:

"Friend of mine has a 198x K-car, a Plymouth Reliant, with 260,xxx miles on it.  It has taken him that distance without the trans being rebuilt of the valve cover ever cracked open.  Just normal wear items like tires, water pump, etc.  So they finally decide to get something newer...  We're sitting in their living room talking about their decision when she says something like: 'I think we should get a Toyota or something this time -- something that's actually reliable.'  I sat there stunned for a few seconds then realize the irony of that statement.  A car they had owned for over a decade had never let them down, had taken them to the far ends of the earth without any major hiccups, and was built by Americans -- but somehow, that car and the company and workers were all consigned to the dust heap despite their best work; and a foreign manufacturer was about to win a new customer?"

Yes, this was a real conversation.

I think people believe foreign manufacturers have better products simply because that's the line the lamestream media keeps feeding everyone.

I don't think foreign cars are any better than anything Detroit produces; and in many ways foreign products are somewhat inferior, for often subtle reasons.  I can't remember the last time an exterior door handle broke on one of our previous American minivans; yet two have broken in less than 70k on our Kia.  Other little details abound.


>Standard, or whatever parts maker, is not purposely choosing substandard parts on purpose, 
>they are looking to make money! Years ago this stuff was made by Americans. Then Japanese, 
>then Mexicans and Peruvians, now Chinese or Malaysians.......sort of the hunter goes to 
>where the game is and if it costs $1 to make one in US, and $1 to make 100 of them in 
>China, then it is not hard math to see where less overhead, most profit is!


Actually margins are a lot lower than one might think, especially for things -- like automotive parts -- that require some expertise in building to spec (not to mention using pure materials not adulterated with lead and other fillers).  Once you factor in shipping and other costs involved in getting a product to the American market, margins are usually getting pretty close to what the U.S. made equivalent would have been.  But in the hyper-competitive American market, if a made-in-USA widget costs $10 to make, and after all the ancilliary costs are thrown in it costs $9 to get it from Malaysia or China, then it's going overseas.


>You are correct, there is little manufacturing here in US sadly. 


That's not entirely true.  Keep in mind that the trend in American manufacturing for a century and a half has been consistently "do more with less".

In order to keep up with new technology, manufacturing constantly has to shed employees as automated processes take the place of human processes.  I have a friend who is an engineer with a shopping-cart company.  He created a moving rig that did a one-shot process on the company's standard shopping cart.  Unfortunately, it also eliminated twelve positions (four workers, three shifts).  The company is still in business and is doing fine -- even against competition from Asia.

Keep an eye on U.S. Census manufacturing surveys.  Manufacturing output increases pretty much continuously, year over year.  It *is* getting more and more decentralized.  Companies now much more often do their own design work but then outsource the fabbing to small, nimble fab companies.  Many of these can be found hidden in all sorts of communities.  There was a two-man machine shop in Edinburg VA (look it up - population about ~900) I visited once.  The tech in the back was making 40,000 small aluminum parts for a larger manufacturer; the other guy was in the front working up estimates and downloading specs & RFP's.  You could have fit the entire operation in a typical American McMansion living room.

As I see it, the real danger in outsourcing overseas is that most of the major outsourcing companies are actively and agressively stealing American designs and processes without paying for them.  A good example of how this can bite us in the a$$ was in the news a short while back: an American comm company hires Chinese launch contractor to put satellite in orbit.  Chinese launch tech not up to snuff; inaccurate, inefficient, might have resulted in loss of perfectly good multi-million-dollar satellite.  American company gives Chinese more advanced American launch tech.  Next, establishment finds the tech in Chinese missiles.

Yeah, we do the same thing (heck, a lot of US defense technology is designed on computers made in China); but nevertheless we should avoid doing it to ourselves if possible.


>And a lot of those jobs 
>might not ever come back to these shores. There are something like 8 million + people out 
>of work that would love to work, even in manufacturing here in US, in 2010, but the 
>'powers that be' would rather send the job off to a foreign land where it costs cents to 
>make something, as opposed to having it made here with benefits, paid sick leaves, 
>maternity, and other add ons! Because not competitive?


If we can't be the lowest-cost producers any more, then we are going to lose net wealth -- which is what has been happening the last couple of years.  When that sort of shift happens, health benefits, high taxes, paid sick leave, pensions, early retirement -- they are all destined to go away.  If you can't afford them, you can't afford them.

When the reality of the situation sinks in, Americans will eventually see that they're going to have to accept less pay, perks, debt, and waste.  We're going to retire later in life (which is probably a good thing).

Our fathers built a manufacturing powerhouse with a lot less pay and perks than we have now.  If Americans really want to be lowest-cost producers of manufactured goods again, it's going to have to tilt back that way again (less pay and perks).




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MARC MONTONI
Richmond VA
http://FreeVirginia.blogspot.com/
Freedom.  Responsibility.  www.LP.org 
Cu vi parolas Esperanton?
I'd rather push a Rambler than drive a Toyota.
Visit www.AMCRC.com or www.AMONational.com .
http://RichmondRambler.tripod.com/
http://Hasdrubal.tripod.com/Index.htm
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