Re: [Amc-list] PRI Learnings--Groovy Butanol

[Wrambler242@xxxxxxxxxxx]

Last I heard two Ethanol plants laid out to be put in place in western Pa have been scrapped due to the downturn in the economy! When we need the jobs and should be preparing the money dries up and expansion stops cold...

   I'm hoping the new administration will have the insight to not go hide in a cave till things improve...

I and mine are gainfully employed and have no fears due to our emplyers being pretty darned stable, but a lot of people could use those jobs!

  It will all grind to a halt till Memorial day and the price of fuel hits $4 a gallon again, then they'll be all, "oh we need to get this stuff built".

I too would dearly love a real world dyno testing series done on a couple of AMC engines.
One a big inch V-8, the other a stroker six. I'd like ot see the studies include before and afters, detonation thresholds, Hp, torque numbers.  Forget those "other" make engines... :)


--
Mark Price
Morgantown, WV
1969 AMC Rambler, 4.0L, EFI, T-5
2004 Grand Cherokee Laredo, 4.7L, Quadratrac II
" I realize that death is inevitable.
I just don't want to be around when it happens! "

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Bruce Hevner" <scramblr@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Things I learned from the PRI show;
> 
> BUTANOL
> The only folks I could find who had ANY knowledge of Butanol were those
> crazy propeller head engineers from SHELL. 
> They said there is no problem using it as a motor fuel to replace gasoline
> as far as they know. The big problem is in the economics of it. Currently
> the refining yield of Butanol is about HALF of Ethanol. They said it is also
> much harder to get that yield because Butanol is very sensitive to several
> things that can reduce the yield even more. That makes the price of Butanol
> twice that of Ethanol BEFORE subsidies.
>  They are aware of the Dupont/BP partnership which was established to try
> and convert an Ethanol plant in Europe to Butanol. The partnership was
> established over two years ago. As far as they know there have been no
> advancements made with that and they felt if there were we certainly would
> have heard about it.
> With the current price of crude oil in the basement it doesn't look like
> we'll hear Butanol news anytime soon.
> 
> CYLINDER HEAD GROOVING
> I asked most of the "big name" cylinder head companies there what knowledge
> they had of CHG (cylinder head grooving). NONE of them seemed to have any
> idea of what I was talking about! The ONLY company who had knowledge of it
> (and a pretty good one) was the folks at a small place called "Audie
> Technology" www.audietech.com. They said they had seen the web site and knew
> all about the claims. They too are VERY skeptical of any benefit from it and
> expressed concerns it might increase the tendencies towards detonation. They
> have not tested the theory however and knew no one who has. They also hope
> SOMEONE will do a back to back dyno test soon.
>  I asked about the possibility that it might help "swirl" if the grooves
> were done at an angle. They said you have to be careful with inducing swirl
> as you can actually get too much! He said GM had done a LOT of research with
> swirl when they were developing the LS head. They found that using too much
> swirl can actually hurt performance. Too much acts as a centrifuge and spins
> the fuel out of the mixture where it collects on the cooler cylinder walls
> not burning properly. The magic number seems to be 100 RPM. This can be
> measured using their "Swirl Meter".
> These guys are VERY knowledgeable and spent a good bit of time talking with
> me. I recommend you take a look at their web site. They have a good
> selection of software and hardware including instructions on how to make
> your own flow bench!
> 
> I had a great time at the PRI show looking at all the high dollar parts,
> talking with some of the top names in racing, and attending the technical
> seminars. If you are in the racing game in any form (it's a trade only show)
> I HIGHLY recommend you go! First full week in December, Orlando FL.
> Maybe I'll see you there as I did Jim Boone!
> 
> But HEY,,, That's just ME!!
> Bruce Hevner
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