Re: [Amc-list] recently rebuilt 343 - No Oil Pressure

["Armand Eshleman" <aje1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Short periods of run time might mean bearing damage didn't occur. Slathered
up bearings just might live through it. If the bearings wiped off the
slather, then the bearing outer layers will be wiped off. The cam and
lifters could still be damaged because their break in procedure is usually
to run it at approximately 1800 to 2000 rpm for the first half hour, varying
the rpm somewhat but never too high and do not go to idle. If this isn't
followed I understand that cam lifter damage occurs with flat hydraulic
tappet style cams.
One thing no one mentioned was to remove your oil filter, cut it open with
an oil filter cutting tool or a pipe cutter. Don't hack saw it cause metal
from that cut will get into the filter. carefully open the paper element a
look for metal particles, use a clean magnet to find ferrous (iron) pieces,
look very closely for bearing material, that will be non ferrous. If the
filter is clean you may have gotten lucky, or all the metal is still in the
pan or lifter valley. Either way you will be pulling the intake to install
plugs.

Even though I think there's a slight chance you got lucky, I still think N.
Alfano gave the best advice, pull it, tear it down, get some engine manuals
for AMCs and rebuild it paying twice as much attention to every little
minute detail. Doing it right the second time is still better than hoping
it's oK and finding out later that you should have tore it down and done it
right the second time.

Armand


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg DePratt" <gdepratt@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "AMC/Rambler owners, drivers and fans." <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] recently rebuilt 343 - No Oil Pressure


> Thanks for all the replies...i sure hope it is not torn up.  It wasnt
> running for a straight 5 minutes... maybe 15 seconds at a time with
> some breaks inbetween. i slathered it with good lube and oil putting
> it together. i will take it apart and let you all know.
>
> On 11/13/08, Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> > I missed that post somehow! I'm ranking about the same as Tom --
> > "experienced amateur builder". Those two plugs at the top near the front
of
> > the valley DO have to be plugged. IIRC they are 3/8" plugs, but I'm not
100%
> > certain. Those plug the holes that are drilled through the block to the
> > lifter galleries (and pump on one side). Without the plugs you were just
> > running oil up into the valley. It wasn't building pressure because
there
> > was nothing slowing the oil's progress through the pump and out the top.
> >
> > If you used a good assembly lube you SHOULD be okay. Install the plugs,
> > prime the engine with a drill before you start it to make sure you have
oil
> > pressure (the drill may not pump up much over 10 psi before it bogs
down),
> > then start it.
> >
> > I doubt you did enough damage to warrant disassembly. If you did, you'll
> > know right after it cranks up and starts knocking. You may as well fire
it
> > up and see. At worst my guess is you took a few hundred miles off the
> > bearings (assuming a good assembly lube was used). You should be fine on
the
> > camshaft also, as there was no oil to wash the lube away.
> >
> > Make sure you use a good break-in oil additive! With today's low ZDDP
oils
> > that's VERY important. I'd run the additive in the second batch of oil
too
> > (in the second oil change). Unless you are using stiffer than stock
valve
> > springs you should be fine after the second oil change with regular oil,
but
> > it won't hurt to run a bit of supplement from now on.
> >
> > ----------------
> > Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:52:52 -0800
> > From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
> >
> > Hmm, no engine builers replied... OK, I'm rank amateur engine builder,
> > but... that sounds bad to me. The first few minutes are the most
> > critical by far.
> >
> > Usual practice is to spin up the oil pump with a drill and flattened rod
> > until you see oil pressure, BEFORE you fire up... or at least spin it up
> > until it "gets stiff" so that the galleries are all full of oil and the
> > pump primed.
> >
> > No way you wanna hear this... if it were me, I'd pull the engine now,
> > with the assumption that if you don't, you will later, with ruined hard
> > parts. Or see if you can get the pan off and pop a bearing cap or two. I
> > dunno though, cam lube is dead critical at start up. Did you use
> > high-zinc lube on everything at assembly?
> >
> > Sorry, I think no one wants to say anything so depressing. Maybe the
> > more-optimistic will slap me down here. I do tend to be on the paranoid
> > side when it comes to assembly.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Greg DePratt wrote:
> >
> >> > Finally got my 343 back together and in my Javelin.  Fired it up and
> >> > found
> >> > that I am not getting any oil pressure....bummer.  So I checked my
oil
> >> > pressure gauge and it is working.  Next I checked the oil pressure
gauge
> >> > tube and also removed the tube from the port.  Some oil will come out
of
> >> > the
> >> > port while it is running but not a lot.  Next we removed the
distributor
> >> > and
> >> > turned the oil pump with a drill, thinking maybe the pump didn't get
> >> > primed
> >> > properly.  Still no oil pressure.  After scratching our heads for a
> >> > while we
> >> > remembered that the local machine shop sent the block back to us
without
> >> > any
> >> > of the plugs in it.  Usually they put the plugs back in the correct
> >> > spots
> >> > before giving it back. We installed all the plugs we had but were
unsure
> >> > on
> >> > the two plugs at the front of the engine under the intake.  With the
> >> > drill
> >> > turning the oil pump we see a lot of oil flowing while looking into
the
> >> > oil
> >> > fill tube.  Is this the souce of my low oil pressure problem?
Thought I
> >> > would ask the experts before I pull the intake and have to buy a new
> >> > gasket.
> >> >
> >> > The total run time for the engine so far was less than 5 minutes.  Do
> >> > you
> >> > think I could have damaged anthing?
> >> >
> >> > If it is those plugs that I need to fill, does anyone know what size
> >> > they
> >> > are?
> >> >
> > --
> > Frank Swygert
> > Publisher, "American Motors Cars"
> > Magazine (AMC)
> > For all AMC enthusiasts
> > http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
> > (free download available!)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://splatter.wps.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
> >
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