Re: [Amc-list] 401 Oil Mods (AMC I-6 oil issues)

[Wrambler242@xxxxxxxxxxx]

Just for the record.
I still don't agree on the need to run a six over full on oil.
My 4.0L has the unneeded Hi volumn pump in it, [it was a freebie from a buddy]
My shortblock has about 8K on it and it is a factory shortblock, no blueprinting, just he wya it came out of the Jeep in 95. For a cam I have a NOS 87 4.0L cam, nuther freebie. Stock replacement lifters.
Head is the 91-95 era head, has been mildly cleaned up around the valve guides and ports cleaned and the valves lapped. I also polished the oil returns in the head. that is it.
   I run a 73 Hornet pan and pickup. I do not run it overfull.
Can shows about 70psi cold oil pressure and about 40psi hot +-. I have run it on several different grades of oil, blends and synthetic and even diesel grades.
   I've run it off the 5200 rpm HO computers rev limiter once or twice, well maybe a few time more then that.
I have never seen the Autometer Comp series oil pressure gauge even so much as flutter...
   I tried running a few different engines overfull to protect them when I was a kid.
Dragstrip numbers fell on everyone I tried it on. 
   Making the oil level closer to the crank creates drag, foam, etc; plus there is never any good done from whipping the oil and mixing air into it.
   Now, your saying a half a quart.
That probably won't hurt anything at all.
   But I disagree it is needed or that "Oil capacity IS a problem with the six".

   

--
Mark Price
Morgantown, WV
1969 AMC Rambler, 4.0L, EFI, T-5
2004 Grand Cherokee Laredo, 4.7L, Quadratrc II
" Chronic Pain Hurts"

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>
> Oh there are some Jeep mud racers and even some road racers that have revved 
> them up to 6500 rpm or so! 6000 is about the point where a harmonic vibration 
> sets in, but if you go PAST that point it's fine -- just don't run AT it. From 
> what I've been told there is about a 100 rpm window. 50 rpm before the vibration 
> starts and 50 beyond it's fine to run in. The exact point varies slightly with 
> the specifics of a particular engine. Most of the Jeepers/road racers run 258s, 
> and their "bad spot" is supposedly right around 6000 rpm. My 4.6L runs 
> completely out of steam by 5500 (gets that far and all but dies, mainly due to 
> my cam, but the Renix computer might have a rev limiter at 5500). I hardly ever 
> run past 3000 rpm though, no need to! 
> 
> 199 used flat top pistons. Your 232 has got to have 9.5:1 compression or better 
> with the flat-tops. Maybe closer to 10:1, I'm not sure. That might be a problem 
> when you convert back to gasoline. May have to run premium at that compression, 
> might get by with mid grade though. That's the only problem I can see.
> 
> Oil capacity IS a problem with the six. I always run mine 1/2 quart above the 
> full mark on the stick to avoid that issue. I don't think the crank will touch 
> the oil with the extra 1/2 quart, and even if it does when the car is at rest it 
> won't matter -- that 1/2 quart will be circulating through the engine in just a 
> second or so, way before any oil is churned up. Jeeps don't have this problem 
> with the deeper sump. Never had it with my Cherokee, Commanche, or J-10. Those I 
> just run at the mark, the cars I run 1/2 quart over. I doubt a full quart over 
> would hurt a thing. The police oil pan for the V-8s is outwardly identical to 
> the standard V-8 pan (police has a different baffle inside), but they were 
> spec'd to hold an additional quart of oil. I was told the only reason the V-8 
> specs said five quarts was for economics -- owners wouldn't like changing six 
> quarts of oil every time when the other brands only needed five. Besides, five 
> quarts is more than adequate for 95% of driver
>  s. The others learn to add another quart. 
> 
> ----------------
> Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 08:52:51 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
> 
> 
> On Mon, 17 Mar 2008, Frank Swygert wrote:
> > As for the sixes, well, they've never had oiling issues that
> > I know of! The only exception is the early 199/232/258 with
> > rocker shafts. Those need a mod to one of the rocker shaft
> > bolts to allow more oil to the shaft.
> 
> 
> Also, no one revs much past 6000, even Navarro didn't get much
> faster than that. I doubt most people rev a 199/232/258/4.0
> past 5000.
> 
> Hopefully next month (soon as the trans is back in the American)
> the Classic's 232 gets torn down. Since it was 100% propane
> and synth oil for 20 years, the wear patterns in there will be
> pretty much 100% mechanical wear patterns. I did change the
> cam and lifters back in 92 or 93 otherwise it's been sealed
> the whole time. I built it myself very carefully using a great
> machine shop in San Francisco.
> 
> It's the old-style rocker shaft WITHOUT the mods.
> 
> Besides that issue, are there other issues with this motor? I
> know it doesn't rev high, but how much oil stays in the air? This
> motor's tended to run the oil pickup dry on hard turns (idiot
> light comes on) obviously hasn't killed it... I assumed I put
> the pickup in slightly off, but is there a sump issue?
> 
> GIven a stock 70 head etc, are there combustion chamber issues
> to watch for? I don't think I've been able to run as much ign
> advance as I should without pinging, so I may have squish area
> AFU (it's got 199 or is it 290 flat-top pistons in it).
> 
> -- 
> Frank Swygert
> Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
> Magazine (AMC)
> For all AMC enthusiasts
> http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
> (free download available!)
> 
> 
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