Re: [Amc-list] check torque vs. retorque

[Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>]

That's what I think Tom -- check means put a wrench on and see if the bolt moves before you reach the specified torque. No click type wrenches back then, just beam and dial!! With a click type it's harder to check, you have to set it a pound or two under then pull. 

I've got 20+ years experience driving the 196 OHV as a daily driver. I never checked torque, if I put a wrench on I took the 30 minutes to loosen then torque each bolt. No need to loosen all or work in a pattern, just loosen slightly (1/4-1/2 turn) then torque back down. I did that every other year whether it needed it or not, and I put up to 7K a year on it. If you're not 100% certain you retorqued last year, retorque it this year anyway! Better than warping a head. I never had a problem with the every other year routine, which was usually in the 10-14K mile range. I think the newer, better head gasket material is the reason for that. 

Even with a new Felpro "no sealer required, no retorque required" head gasket you BETTER use a sealer!! I've used spray on copper and aluminum, or "Indian Head" shellac type -- all seem to work just fine. "No retorque required" means you don't have to install the head, get engine up to operating temp and put 50 or so miles on it, then let it cool and retorque all the bolts. That was standard procedure with the old pre 70s materials, newer ones are more stable. 

I don't know why the head needs to be retorqued, I just know that the most common problem on the 196 OHV is a blown head gasket. The engine runs hot before you really notice, and if it runs very hot at all the head will warp. Those things are VERY hard to find not warped! I've picked up a couple old Ramblers and drove them a bit before I checked the head. BAD IDEA!! Unless you KNOW it's been retorqued do the work BEFORE driving! Get it cranked, maybe drive it on the trailer, but DON'T take it down the road beyond a test drive (10-20 miles)!! 

The last time I got one with a 196 I hadn't had a 196 car for about five years. Ran good, I was planning on eventually changing out to a 4.0L at some point, so I drove it a little. Forgot completely about the head! I was only putting around town anyway, not driving enough to hurt anything! A couple months later I took it for a 30 mile one way drive. I'd put a couple hundred miles on it around town, but it was just getting up to full operating temp most of the time (under 10 miles one way, and in the fall). I stopped for about an hour at the end of the 30 mile run, then got about half way back when a little steam sneaked out from under the hood. #$%#$% should have checked those head bolts!! Wasn't ready to change the engine yet. I pulled over and let it cool off for an hour, then got it back home. By the time I reached home (15-20 miles) it was steaming again! Had to park it or change the head gasket. I parked it for about six weeks while I stepped up the 4.0L project. Could h
 ave been driving it a little if I'd just retorqued the head!! I kicked myself every time I saw it in the yard those six weeks -- I KNOW BETTER AND DID IT ANYWAY!!!!!

Not sure if studs would solve the problem or not. I even considered that when I rebuilt my last 196 OHV. The problem is there's only one way to find out if it solves the issue, and I'm not willing to risk a warped head to do it! If I'm going to retorque every other year there's no point in going to the expense of installing studs. Besides, that makes the head "real fun" to get off later! I've pulled a flathead 196 head off over 20 or so studs. It is anything BUT fun!!  

-------
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 10:45:32 -0800
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>

The TSM for the iron 195.6OHV says

	"check torque every 4000 miles"

and also

	"re-torque every 8000 miles"

What the hell does this really mean? I assume the first is simply stick a 
torque wrench on it set to 60 ft/lbs and make sure nothing's come loose; 
but does the second one really mean I gotta LOOSEN the headbolts, then 
re-torque? That seems like asking for trouble! What is this, 1930? Don't 
answer that.



-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)


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