Re: [Amc-list] RE-powering 58-63 American (was t14 to t96 overdrive)

[Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>]

As Tom states, this is a TIGHT engine compartment! My understanding is that when the 1950 Nash Rambler (basically the same car as the 56-63 American) was designed, Nash took it's smallest six and at least partially designed as small a car as they could around it. Might be something someone made up, but one look under the hood and you believe it! Even side to side it's tight! 

If I had known the Ford 250 six would fit I'd have probably put it in there rather than rebuild a 196. The big problem with the 196, at least as a daily driver, is parts replacement. The most critical difficult to find maintenance part is the water pump. If you drive around town or not to far from home (say no more than 3-4 hours one way), and have alternate transportation, it's no big deal. Everything else that is likely to break is rebuildable or obtainable, but will still take a few days. A water pump might take a couple weeks (to have the original sent in and rebuilt). 

Mark, you aren't putting in a Ford 200 just to get a Ford 200, but to get an engine that is easier to find parts for. The 200 doesn't have any other advantage over the 196 as far as I'm concerned. Sizes are just to close to make a notcieable difference, and I think the 196 has a torque advantage over the 200. The 250 is just a tall deck 200, and gaining 54 cubic inches vs. just four IS a big deal! It's not just a matter of cutting the firewall either, it's major surgery on the firewall. You must not have seen under the hood of one recently, or just forgot what it's like on the firewall. The heater is dead center of the firewall and made into it, can't just be moved. You'd have to lose the heater and install an aftermarket heating system or do without. Lots of welding and sheet metal work would be involved to make it look good inside and out too. It would not be a simple task! Installing the Ford engine and trans would be much easier, and would just need a custom driveshaft. 

Tom, the AMC15 rear axle is stronger than you think! With near stock size tires it will easily support a carbureted 258. I ran one behind my 4.6L EFI stroker for a couple years with no problems, a 63 small pinion shaft model (torque tube type, but the same pinion shaft is used for TT and early "bog nut" open drive cars, the main reason the "big nut" driveshaft was used). The Dana 35 used in 4.0L Cherokees is essentially the same axle, but I do believe the axle shafts are slightly larger in diameter. That axle will hold up behind a stock small V-8 with relatively skinny street tires (up to 205s) in a light car -- the tires will break loose before the axles breaks. The 15 gets an undeserved bad rap. It's as tough as (and about the same size @ 7-9/16") as the Ford 8". 


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Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:26:53 -0800
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>

-- Wrambler242@xxxxxxxxxxx <Wrambler242@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> > Oh, I can't help but say, Cut the firewall ! Or put a 3.7 or some such
> > short motor in it. I'd not go to the work of swapping just to gain the
> > FORD six...
The pre-64 American has a difficult engine compartment. It's tiny! I 
added radiator overflow, a resistor for the Pertronix epoxy coil, and 
had to move an overdrive relay to install a windshield washer resevoir! 
No more room! It's REALLY SMALL in there.

Considering everything (engine, trans, mounts, transmissions, 
rear,driveshaft, etc) I doubt I'd swap anything, I'd simply build a 
195.6OHV. Pistons seem to be the only part difficult to find, and when 
you include the expense and hassle of fitting non-American stuff in 
there, I can't believe it's not simply easier, cheaper and more reliable 
to stick with something close to stock.

This much is certain: change the motor, and you must change everything 
back through the rear tires. If you want simply "stock replacement" eg. 
a mild  Ford 200, you could adapt to the original rear; for much more 
torque than stock the trans and rear have to go. And if it's a 
Twin-Stick car, you lose a major coolness factor for the car.

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)


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