Re: [Amc-list] Re; ELECTRO-RAMBLER =revisited=

[Wrambler242@xxxxxxxxxxx]

I did some heavy reading  of the first Saturn site you posted and after thinking it over am sad to say, "I don't see the point". The guy spent a small fortune on the conversion, even with sponsors. He said he would post his costs, but unless I missed the link, He never did so. He has moved his battery pack twice since the initial build and it says the car was removed from use after 3 years, but I can't or did not see why. He went thru two Battery pacs after finding Optima batteries to be unrealiable. The car was overloaded so he rebuilt the suspension. 
   As a conclusion, I think he quite likely spent more building and keeping the thing going then he would have spent  fixing the ICE,as he calls it [Internal Combustion engine]. Even factoring in gas costs I doubt he broke even. He only drives 5 miles one way to work. 
   Unless I stumble on a complete car for dirt cheap, I don't see myself getting involved with a conversion right now.
Honda advertises up to 50mpg from thier new Civics. Even if they screw the public and it "only" gets 40mpg, it's likely a better deal. Of course I just realized that is likely a Hybrid, I'm not interested on one of those. It's agood concept, but it takes too much control away from the owner for my tastes. They won't even release the proposed costs of replacement batteries yet! 
    I'll just shoot for a straight gas or diesel subcompact when the time gets here for a new car. That will be a while unless something happens to one of our DD's. Son number two can get his permit in October. Then a year later he is elegible for his license. It costs us an additonal $800 every six months for son number one. I'm not in a hurry to buy anything new, now, or ever.
   We saved a ton of cash buying the XJ Cherokee. Paid $6500 cash for a 97 with 52K on it. Two and half years later  we we have spent maybe $750 in maintaing it. $225 was unnecessary as it was for a set of 15X8" canyon wheels. So we have maybe $7500 in it even fudging for cost factors. A new Jeep would have depreciated more then that after 2 1/2 years.... 
   Coming to my senses and my wifes always good sense with money has left us with a nice nest egg in the bank and NO PAYMENTS on anything! Our kids grumble cause ,"you could buy that if you wanted" to which we reply, " yeah, but if we bought that and everything else we wanted, then we couldn't buy the next that when it comes along". We're good thank you.
   I think I'll stick with gas engines in my Rambler for now. Maybe I'll have to build a still some day to run'em, but by then I hope to have time to do it!

--
Mark Price
Morgantown, WV
1969 AMC Rambler, 4.0L, EFI, T-5

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM" <Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> The used Saturn cost just $900, the batteries were $1,700 and the 
> conversion kit was $6,700. Charles says the cost of the conversion 
> will be paid off in gas savings within two years. By his math, a 
> daily commute costs between 30 and 60 cents. With his gas vehicle 
> it was $10.
> --------------------
> 
> The problem I have with this equation is that for $6,700 I can buy 1,340
> gallons of gas @ $5/gal (inflation over the next few years). That's
> 40,200 miles @ 30 mpg, 33,500 @ 25 mpg... so let's figure 36,850 miles
> (average). If the guy drives a five speed older Saturn and keeps it up
> (I allowed the $1700 in batteries for minor repairs, assuming the car
> was in reasonably good driving condition). If he drives conservatively
> (like he HAS TO with the electric) and just uses it for short trips
> (like the electric) he should average closer to 30 mpg OR MORE though.
> We'll go ahead and have him use part of that $1700 in repairs for
> synthetic oil in everything, and just do a once a year oil change. After
> all, he's only driving it 50-60 miles a day. Five days a week, 52 weeks
> a year at 60 miles is 15,600 miles. So he can buy at least 2.5 years of
> gas for the Saturn for less than the conversion kit price, and with
> careful driving (like you have to for the electric) three years. Not
> only that, but he'll have to replace that battery pack in three years --
> conservatively $2K with modest inflation. But we'll call that a wash --
> the Saturn engine will likely need some maintenance over the three years
> that the electric wouldn't. Timing belt changed, and the oil changes,
> tune-ups. Assuming no major repairs, he's not going to pay for the
> conversion in two years -- the math is flawed. If it was cost effective,
> there would be more companies making conversions. Now there are some tax
> incentives, especially in CA, that add up to about $2K a year. 
> 
> So if Charles changes his driving habits and thinking, he'll save more
> by NOT converting the Saturn. Note that his time to do all the work was
> not figured in, and I'm sure there were lots of nickel-dime (well, more
> like $50-$100) parts needed for the conversion not included also -- like
> battery racks and cables (not usually included). 
> 
> An electric is like the new hybrids -- more a statement than anything
> else. Conservative cars and driving at the very least make up for the
> difference in price. That's the only thing that has kept me from
> building one. It would be a fun experiment, but I can get a 60s-70s
> Rambler/AMC and all but totally restore it for the cost. Putting a turbo
> 2.3L four with five speed in a 62 American will net much more fun and be
> as cost effective over a five year period as building an electric --
> depending on how I drive it. It will be more salable in the end to boot.
> 
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