AMC-List Digest, Vol 11, Issue 18
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
AMC-List Digest, Vol 11, Issue 18
- From: amc-list-request@xxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2006 18:00:29 +0000
Send AMC-List mailing list submissions to
amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
amc-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
You can reach the person managing the list at
amc-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxx
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of AMC-List digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Continuing Saga of Doc the Jeep, Part II.5 (Sandwich Maker)
2. Re: Continuing Saga of Doc the Jeep, Part II.5 (Nick Lenarz)
3. Re: To Choke or Not to Choke (Nick Lenarz)
4. e-bay items (Richard Estermyer)
5. State of the Charity AMX (Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
6. Re: Fuel Injecting the big dogs
(Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
7. Re: e-bay items (Sandwich Maker)
8. Re: Fuel Injecting the big dogs (Sandwich Maker)
9. Re: Fuel Injecting the big dogs (Sandwich Maker)
10. Re: Trans for 232 six (Sandwich Maker)
11. Re: 232 Trans into a '64 American.. (Sandwich Maker)
12. Re: Continuing Saga of Doc the Jeep, Part II.5 (Tom Jennings)
13. Re: Continuing Saga of Doc the Jeep, Part II.5 (Tom Jennings)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2006 17:28:47 -0500 (EST)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Continuing Saga of Doc the Jeep, Part II.5
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200612052228.kB5MSlY10221@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: Nick Lenarz <n9viw@xxxxxxxxx>
"
" []
" The NEW problem is that it won't idle when cold. Give it a kick in the
" morning and it starts with a healthy roar, idles for a second or two,
" then dies as though I've turned the key off. Kick it again, and it
" fires up and dies just the same, and it will do that as many times as I
" like. LOL!
how's the choke working? this sounds like it isn't, or it's opening
too fast.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 12:27:45 -0500
From: Nick Lenarz <n9viw@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Continuing Saga of Doc the Jeep, Part II.5
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<ADVANCES62yabYTHrdu0000091a@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
Thanks to all for the suggestion of the choke. The weather has been
quite cold recently; it's too bad the cold moved in while I was
fiddling with the cam timing set, as I don't have a good basis of
comparison now!
I checked the choke setting last night, and found that it was closing
'most' of the way, but it didn't close tightly. I will tighten the
choke when I get home, and see what happens from there. My biggest
concern with tightening the choke is the fact that the longer it stays
closed, the longer it is held to the high idle position, which is a
problem while driving and at stoplights.
I also received a suggestion to simply convert to a mechanical choke,
for more control. I have a manual choke on the MC2100, and the cable is
still in the Jeep, but I don't have a manual choke housing for the BBD.
I'll see about getting one tonight.
I took the Jeep out last night after fiddling with it for a bit. I got
it to idle on its own after kicking and starting it a total of seven or
eight times, and let it warm up. I went for a drive, and still noted
the following:
* General lack of power at idle and off-idle.
* Flat spot in throttle right at 1000 RPM.
This same engine used to be able to idle up steep hills in 4WD, and
wouldn't stall for anything! I think the flat spot has to do with the
setting of the needles in the BBD carb, but the lack of power at and
off idle isn't helping things any.
I'm thinking about contacting Comp Cams and asking if they've ever
encountered anything like it. I also plan to connect a vacuum gauge to
the intake manifold so I can check it while driving. I think a lot of
this problem is a general lack of vacuum at idle, where it should be
highest, because it seems like it just stops sucking gas. Once I solve
that, whether it's because of the cam or an as-yet undiscovered vacuum
leak, I think I'll have it.
On December 6, 2006 Swygert Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM wrote:
> I'll third or fourth (or....) the choke as being the most likely
culprit
> for the hard to start when cold engine. What's the outside temp like
> there? Even with the choke working right it will be harder to start.
> That's why a lot of late model carb cars have a tube from the
manifold
> up to the air cleaner controlled by vacuum switches -- to divert
warm
> air in the carb for cold weather starts/operating.
=============================================================
Posted by wixList Archiver -- http://www.amxfiles.com/wixlist
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 12:37:04 -0500
From: Nick Lenarz <n9viw@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] To Choke or Not to Choke
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<ADVANCES62o95EFk2H300000931@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
Thank God I still have friends in the yak farming industry.
'Putin-putin'... hmm... Is that pronounced "Pyoo-tin", "puh-tin",
"puut-in" or "poo-tin"? LOL!
I know my trials and travails must get tiring to read, but I am seeing
some forward progress- hey, at least I can drive it now, whereas a
month ago I couldn't even keep it running for a jaunt around the
block!
Thanks to all for the suggestions and laughs, I'll try anything once!
:D
Nick
On December 6, 2006 milnersXcoupe wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Dec 2006, Nick Lenarz wrote:
>
> > The NEW problem is that it won't idle when cold.
>
> > Anyone have any suggestions?
>
>
> <>
>
>
> I;ve found Yak Dung, spread gingerly over
> the exhaust manifold and heat riser while bouncing
> the butterfly and chanting: 'Putin-Putin' holds promise...
> anyone with similar results ?
>
>
> =Bt=
> milnersXcoupe
> "The Heretic"
=============================================================
Posted by wixList Archiver -- http://www.amxfiles.com/wixlist
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2006 18:19:17 -0500
From: "Richard Estermyer" <javelinman74@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] e-bay items
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx, cymier@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, kcoilman@xxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: amcsob@xxxxxxxxx, marlin@xxxxxxxxxxx, cinman@xxxxxxxxxxx,
moparedwalker@xxxxxxxxx, route66rambler@xxxxxxxxx, havekost@xxxxxxx,
teamfour2@xxxxxxxxxxx, Mark.Danielsen@xxxxxxx,
javmanamcpres@xxxxxxxxx, amcrambler@xxxxxxxxxxx, amx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
joeyp@xxxxxxxxxxx, diatom2@xxxxxxxxxxx,
Rick.Jones@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
sportsix63@xxxxxxxxx, polkamx69@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
jimmadis9@xxxxxxxxxxx, digby30@xxxxxxxxx, MLYNCH1@xxxxxxxxxxx,
house-of-travel@xxxxxxxxxx, pandkfrancis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
john.widiker@xxxxxxx, jameswajda@xxxxxxx, rdecrease@xxxxxxxxxxxxx,
rebel25a@xxxxxxx, raslater@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, kgardner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
loud-family@xxxxxxx, javelinman74@xxxxxxxxxxx, rrogers74@xxxxxxxxxxx,
greg_taylor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx, kmorgeson1@xxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY106-F24B21A7FFBE9618D223DD5DDDD0@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Hey Gang and friends
Just a note of the items I placed on e-bay with a 5 day to end on the
weekend. Here is the link to the alternator and then check other items from
there. There are hats, shirts, (AMC and some Ford, GM and other transfers I
have from showtimes), and the calendars have 2 days left.
IF you win something and are on the list let me know, I will combine up to 4
items for the basic $5 fee. And the calendars are listed to get the news
out and IF you are interested, e-mail me direct and I will get one going for
you, $15. Add $1 for each additional calendar shipped together.
After the closing of the auction for calendars I will be creating them and
after the t-shirts, I will be ordering shirts and completing that order as
needed. The hats are limited as a couple other things. Still safe timing
for CHristmas delivering.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=003&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&viewitem=&item=130056506000&rd=1,1
And the AMC Rescue Team is still available to add your name to, see me.
THANKS for the look see!
Merry Christmas!
Richard
Richard Estermyer
PhotoGraphics
6235 S. Mohawk Avenue
Ypsilanti, MI 48197
734.483.5138
734.417.9456 cell
javelinman74@xxxxxxxxxxx
_________________________________________________________________
Visit MSN Holiday Challenge for your chance to win up to $50,000 in Holiday
cash from MSN today!
http://www.msnholidaychallenge.com/index.aspx?ocid=tagline&locale=en-us
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 08:09:07 -0600
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] State of the Charity AMX
To: <john.widiker@xxxxxxx>, <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<4CC05BF0CC3F114281434B00B733E2A310DC53@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
<snip>
I do want to take this opportunity to make one very clear statement if I
may. It does not matter to me a bit who misplaced this or any stuff, who
may have taken it, or broken it, or allowed it to be taken hostage by an
international drug ring, I furthermore don't care a bit where these
parts are currently unless they can be found. If they turn up we need
them in a bad way. I do care a great deal about making this car a
success, to me what's already happened is irrelevant, what I'm concerned
where we are going and concerned about getting what we need to finish
it. This stuff is not cheap, putting broken old stuff on the car is
pointless so we are left needing stuff that's rare and spendy when it's
nice. This is part of owning/restoring/liking a 1970 AMX and one of the
major pitfalls of this car.
<snip>
Thank you John! VERY nice first report! I can only reiterate what you've
said about missing parts. Some I expected -- the car has been packed up,
shipped, spread out, worked on, packed up again, etc., several times
already. I'm going to send a message out to the previous work crews NOT
accusing anyone of anything, but asking them to check their
stashes/workplaces and see if they discover anything. That's about all
that can be done at this point, other than pressing on. There's about
$1000 in the "kitty" now -- this is the point I figured it would be
needed most.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:08:32 -0600
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Fuel Injecting the big dogs
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<4CC05BF0CC3F114281434B00B733E2A310DCE1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The Retrotek system has a MAP sensor and an O2 sensor (wide band/four
wire -- says it just needs to be in one side on a V-8).
I'm with you Tom! They make something like this just for the big guys?
Of course the system is targeted to retail around $2K. Dropping a couple
barrels/injectors won't drop the price that much, would be great if it
would drop to $1500, but I doubt it would drop more than $200-$300
($1700-$1800). Would still be in line with other small EFI kits.
---- Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM wrote:
>
> > I haven't seen one -- I don't think it's in stores yet, but check
> > this
> > out:
> > http://www.retrotekspeed.com/
>
> That's totally great!!!!
>
> I'll wait to see how it behaves without the other useful feedback (air
> mass and flow, temperature, etc) but I don't see how it could be worse
> than a carb, and if done right, 10X better.
>
> But I want a 300cfm 2bbl version! Boo hoo!
>
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:32:32 -0500 (EST)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] e-bay items
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200612071632.kB7GWWG28711@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "Richard Estermyer" <javelinman74@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"
" Hey Gang and friends
" Just a note of the items I placed on e-bay with a 5 day to end on the
" weekend. Here is the link to the alternator and then check other items from
" []
"
" http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=003&sspagename=STRK%3AMESE%3AIT&viewitem=&item=130056506000&rd=1,1
richard and anyone else posting ebay urls: the shortest link you need
for this item is
http://cgi.ebay.com/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130056506000
as item numbers are unique. ebay will find your page from there.
those of us who are cutting and pasting will thank you.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:41:46 -0500 (EST)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Fuel Injecting the big dogs
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200612071641.kB7Gfk728791@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
"
"
" The page for that new-fangled thing does say it likes a
" wide-range O2 sensor. Even the Holley Projection or whatever it's
" called stuff says it works better with feedback from the motor
" (O2, etc). Most of the bad rep from the Holley etc I notice
" are from NOT using feedback -- hence it's totally dependent
" on finely tuned maps, which would have to change with tempo,
" altitude, air density durin rain, etc making them a total pain
" for daily drivers.
which is why open-loop efi systems had all sorts of sensors - for
everything -but- humidity afaik - in order to predict the right amount
of fuel for the air.
the all-mechanical bosch k-jetronic [odd name] throttled fuel flow
with an ingeneous paddle in the airstream that reacted to air mass
flow.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:54:48 -0500 (EST)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Fuel Injecting the big dogs
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200612071654.kB7Gsm428900@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
"
"
"
" That's really good news -- I'd never heard of anyone running
" open-loop *FI successfully.
until the '80s, all efi was open loop.
my family had two '71 saab 99s, one with carbs and one with the
original bosch jetronic first used on the '66 vw squareback and afaik
based on bendix patents [remember the '57 rambler rebel?] bosch bought.
the engines were identical save for induction.
the efi car got almost 10% more power, better mileage, better
driveability, and ran on lower octane than the carb car. the only
problem we ever had with it was the engine temp sensor; when that
failed the idle speed would 'hunt' up and down in cold weather until
it warmed up. other operation was not affected.
" Even carbs are not exactly "open loop"; fuel flow is proportional to
" airflow plus and minus.
not linearly proportional or carbs would be a lot simpler. iirc vac
in a venturi - which is what pulls the fuel through the jet - is
proportional to the square of the air velocity.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:56:34 -0500 (EST)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Trans for 232 six
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200612071656.kB7GuYr28938@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"
" I recall with GM powerglides that the 6 cyl got a higher stall converter
" than the V8.
that is so counterintuitive i wonder what gm's logic could possibly
have been. amc's approach i can understand, from several angles.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:59:48 -0500 (EST)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 232 Trans into a '64 American..
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200612071659.kB7GxmW28980@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
"
" Non big nut Americans share that Ujoint with things as obscure as 77 Pinto wagons!
" Imagine my delight to discover that the Pinto shaft is bolt into a T5
" swap in an American with an AMC15 rear axle! It would have been a true
" bolt in, except I had to swap the trans yoke to the AMC T5 version.
" Same exact Ujoint on both. The Pinto shaft is even larger diameter!
" $20 for the used shaft sure beat the cost of having one made.
" --
why did you have to change yokes? you're using a mustang t5, right?
the u-joint is a common size. iirc even some foreign cars use it.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 09:46:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Continuing Saga of Doc the Jeep, Part II.5
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612070941280.12466@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Nick Lenarz wrote:
> My biggest
> concern with tightening the choke is the fact that the longer it stays
> closed, the longer it is held to the high idle position, which is a
> problem while driving and at stoplights.
You should really find the service manual that covers this carb,
and go through the settings one by one.
The choke spring setting should be within one notch of factory setting.
The fast idle is adjustable separately.
> I took the Jeep out last night after fiddling with it for a bit. I got
> it to idle on its own after kicking and starting it a total of seven or
> eight times, and let it warm up. I went for a drive, and still noted
> the following:
No offense meant, but I think you make things more complicated
for yourself than you need to. My suggestion is to fix one
thing at a time.
It's cold out; set the choke and fast idle. You'll be happier
every morning. Ignore the problems below until this is working.
A lot of settings interact; so if you adjust many at once
symptoms interact and will be hard to untangle.
> * General lack of power at idle and off-idle.
> * Flat spot in throttle right at 1000 RPM.
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 10:00:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Continuing Saga of Doc the Jeep, Part II.5
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612070947460.12466@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 6 Dec 2006, Nick Lenarz wrote:
> * General lack of power at idle and off-idle.
> * Flat spot in throttle right at 1000 RPM.
Assuming the choke is working now (ahem :-) before you go call
Comp Cams, make damn sure you have the basics set right.
Almost certainly all of your problems now are "tuneup" related.
Set ignition timing to dead-stock. Fine tune it later (one
thing at a time!!!) but it should run FINE with 5btdc.
Once it's warmed up, whatever it takes, set the idle. This
assumes it's idling smoothly, if it's not, FIX IT. It's in
the TSM but pretty much the same for every car ever made: at
idle speed, make idle mixture leaner (usually screw IN, but not
always -- RTFM) until the idle gets *slightly* rougher. Leave it
there, or back it out (rich) *slightly*, like 1/4 turn. That's
pretty damn close. It should be smooth.
IF IT IS NOT DO NOT PROCEED. Unless you have a really rough cam
if you car will not idle, you have problems that will affect
every other aspect of running. OK, it's technically possible
to have a plugged idle jet etc but in general, it's overall
tuneup problems. And in any case you need to fix it!
That alone might cure off-idle flatspot. If not --
Does the accellerator pump squirt right off idle? If not,
RTFM, adjust.
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
AMC-List mailing list
AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 11, Issue 18
****************************************
Back to the Home of the AMC Gremlin