AMC-List Digest, Vol 5, Issue 33
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 5, Issue 33
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- Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 22:21:30 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: 3 sp transmission wanted (Mark Price)
2. we want pics doc (d stohler)
3. my 62 classic project (d stohler)
4. Re: my 62 classic project (Sandwich Maker)
5. "Door Rust Repair... How I Did It" (w/ pix) (Arfon)
6. Re: 3 sp transmission wanted (Sandwich Maker)
7. Re: Fw: AMC Trannys: 727s, OD, a518 & various ??'s
(Sandwich Maker)
8. For Sale (Belden, Michelle)
9. Re: 2006 - 55 = 1968 (Sandwich Maker)
10. Re: T5 comments (Sandwich Maker)
11. Little Tiny Cat (JOE FULTON)
12. Re: 3 sp transmission (Jim Boone)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 5:51:44 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 3 sp transmission wanted
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Jim Boone <fljab@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <19712365.1150375904980.JavaMail.root@web19>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
For towing, you'd be hard pressed to beat the 727, Go with a low gear set for extra grunt if your rebuilding it IIRC they are not that expensive. That way you can keep Higher gears in the axle and still get the rig rolling. For top of the line pulling and cruising throw in a Gear vendors overdrive! then you have a full 6 speed automatic! of course your wallet will be $2500-$3000 lighter by the time you buy the controller and everything.
For stick and towing, hmmmm AMC V-8 hookup, hmmmmm. If you want the column shift you could go to a T-10 or the heavy V-8 three speed. A friend had a Late 60's Chevy Pickup with a column shifted T-10 in it. It was way cool! The 4 forward gears where on the column. For reverse you put the column in neutral and pulled up on a knob sticking up thru a bushing in the floor! It was tucked close to the seat and almost invisible.
Most modern Manuals are going to require going to floor shift. A Z-code T-5 with an s-10 tailhousing would clear the bench nicely, get the 3:35 first gear for towing.
You could also get a low first geared 4 speed from a Jeep Or Ford pickup and use high rear axle gears. Most all of these trans are going to shift from the top plate on the trans though.
Well, I'm not building it, so I'll let others chime in on this one!
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- Jim Boone <fljab@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> OK, now that I've seen my last post online, I know this route works. I had
> tried to post this a day or so ago and it never made it.
>
> I have a stock-rebuilt '73 360 that I want to put into my '67 Rebel Station
> Wagon. Hate to do it in a way as the stock 232 runs really well and I get
> ~22mpg out of it. But, I need more power as I'd like to have it tow-capable
> for my other car (the '69 American mentioned in the T5 post).
>
> I've been tossing around different transmission options. I have both a 727
> and two 998's, but truth be told, I really dislike auto's. Just a personal
> preference.
>
> I was thinking if I could find a V8 capable 3 sp that I could put behind
> that 360, and hook it up to my 3-on-the-tree somehow. I have two sets of
> the stock t96 linkage.
>
> If someone has a good used trans out there, I'm interested. I'd need the
> complete setup, bellhousing to yoke. My crossmember would probably work,
> will have to see. If it came out of a column shift car, the linkage would
> be nice, too.
>
> I may still go with one of the automatics, and would probably be a smarter
> choice, but figured it wouldn't hurt to ask about this other way.
>
> Jim Boone
> Mims, FL
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 07:53:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: d stohler <das24rules@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] we want pics doc
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060615145313.49911.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
doc, when you get that grill reinstalled, and everything is in place, you better get some pics posted for us. i know i have been following your ups and downs on the project. i would love to see your hard work and time put into it. it sounds like it should all turn out beautiful. im sure other people on the list would love to see how it all turns out also. you have put a lot of time and effort and pain into it. hope you plan on sharing the beauty with us. take care of your back.
dave stohler
camp taji iraq
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 09:06:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: d stohler <das24rules@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] my 62 classic project
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060615160648.66675.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
i have found me a mustang t-5 in good shape for $300. a rear crossmember for the t-5 for a fox body mustang that has rubber bushings on each side. i can weld mounts on the frame of the car for the crossmember. maybe make the unitbody a little bit more ridgid also? i have also found a bellhousing with new throwout bearing, and fork for a t-5/258 for an 86 cj7. all of this stuff should work well so far right?
frank, i know you told me before, but i cant remember/find what you said i needed to get the amc 20 axle out of that would be as close of a fit as possible on width. remember, i have that triangulated 4 link that has all weld on mounts, so it dont matter what kind of springs/locating it used. just need the width as close as possible.
i am thinking that bellhousing, transmission, crossmember should be just what i need to make it work behind the 304 i want right? so now i would be left just looking for the engine and axle.
thanks everyone, have a great day
dave stohler
camp taji iraq
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:53:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] my 62 classic project
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200606151653.k5FGrHX12552@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: d stohler <das24rules@xxxxxxxxx>
"
" i have found me a mustang t-5 in good shape for $300. a rear crossmember
" for the t-5 for a fox body mustang that has rubber bushings on each side.
" i can weld mounts on the frame of the car for the crossmember. maybe
" make the unitbody a little bit more ridgid also? i have also found a
" bellhousing with new throwout bearing, and fork for a t-5/258 for an 86
" cj7. all of this stuff should work well so far right?
all good so far, but -
most ford trannies - toploaders and v6/v8 t5s - have a 4.85" front
retainer diameter. gm trannies, many amc boxes including their t5,
and at least some 4-cyl fords have a smaller 4.64" diameter. your
amc/jeep bell will be 4.64" where your 5.0 t5 will be 4.85".
you could do worse than to find a -junk- s-10 t5. chances are the
retainer would be good, and it's an easy swap onto the ford t5.
likewise the tailshaft housing, which would move the shifter clear of
your bench seat.
amcs of the late '70s used ford trannies - sr4 and t150 - so a
crossmember from that era might help you also.
one thing bothers me about welding on the frame: you'll burn off any
rustproofing on the inside of the channels, where you can't easily get
back in and cover the bare metal - but water won't have any problem
finding it...
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:22:39 -0500
From: Arfon <Arfon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] "Door Rust Repair... How I Did It" (w/ pix)
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060615121630.03a62ec0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
I think I forgot to post this earlier...
If anyone cares, here's how I fixed the rust holes on my 62 Buick's door:
http://www.arvonia.net/~arfon/62Buick/door%20fun/
LUCKILY, my Rebels aren't as rusty as this so I don't have to do this to
them....
The Ambassador and classic are a different story though... :(
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 13:35:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 3 sp transmission wanted
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200606151735.k5FHZ8R13058@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "Jim Boone" <fljab@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"
"
" I have a stock-rebuilt '73 360 that I want to put into my '67 Rebel Station
" Wagon. Hate to do it in a way as the stock 232 runs really well and I get
" ~22mpg out of it. But, I need more power as I'd like to have it tow-capable
" for my other car (the '69 American mentioned in the T5 post).
"
" I've been tossing around different transmission options. I have both a 727
" and two 998's, but truth be told, I really dislike auto's. Just a personal
" preference.
"
" I was thinking if I could find a V8 capable 3 sp that I could put behind
" that 360, and hook it up to my 3-on-the-tree somehow. I have two sets of
" the stock t96 linkage.
"
" If someone has a good used trans out there, I'm interested. I'd need the
" complete setup, bellhousing to yoke. My crossmember would probably work,
" will have to see. If it came out of a column shift car, the linkage would
" be nice, too.
i'd suggest a late-'70s t150 setup. you could probably even use the
crossmember, and you'd be all set to drop in a toploader 4sp,
side-shifter o/d, or tremec if you ever decide to give the column
shifter up.
" I may still go with one of the automatics, and would probably be a smarter
" choice, but figured it wouldn't hurt to ask about this other way.
" From: d stohler <das24rules@xxxxxxxxx>
"
" i didnt catch the name, but i saw someone was wanting a 3 spd that will
" hold up to a v8. i have a t86 3 speed with overdrive. it is in great
" shape. i have pics of the internal gears and all of it. i just bought
" it off of ebay, and decided to go with a t5 instead. it cost me $443
" shipped to my house. im not sure if its really worth that much. it is a
" fresh rebuild and never used since rebuilt. the overdrive has the
" torque tube mount on it. it was the factory option for the v8 ramblers
" is what i have been able to find. i have been told that my stock t96
" shift linkage would work so i imagine yours would also. i do not have a
" bellhousing or anything else. if you are interested let me know.
i think this would be a little light for the 360 especially with
towing. it was used with v8s, 287s and 290s - in fact your rebel
could've been ordered with it - and it should bold straight up to the
square pattern on the t-10 bell.
" From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
"
" For towing, you'd be hard pressed to beat the 727, Go with a low gear
" set for extra grunt if your rebuilding it IIRC they are not that
" expensive. That way you can keep Higher gears in the axle and still get
" the rig rolling.
i agree, the 727 is very beefy and bulletproof.
given that you're not in a heavy car and not towing a heavy car, a 998
built with a towing/rv setup could even work for you.
" For stick and towing, hmmmm AMC V-8 hookup, hmmmmm. If you want the
" column shift you could go to a T-10 or the heavy V-8 three speed. A
" friend had a Late 60's Chevy Pickup with a column shifted T-10 in it.
" It was way cool! The 4 forward gears where on the column. For reverse
" you put the column in neutral and pulled up on a knob sticking up thru
" a bushing in the floor! It was tucked close to the seat and almost
" invisible.
none of the amc t-10s have good gearing for tow service. only the
t-10u used with early-'80s camaros [just prior to t5s] has a deep
enough first gear, but the input shaft is way too short and torque
capacity is still marginal.
there was a late-'60s chevy ban with a 4sp option. this was the
first-gen platform with 90" wheelbase, so i don't see how it could've
been floorshifted... but i don't know where you'd find the column
either. i just mention it because it would be a neat stock-looking
swap into your rebel, and the wow factor of 4 on the tree...
" Most modern Manuals are going to require going to floor shift. A Z-code
" T-5 with an s-10 tailhousing would clear the bench nicely, get the 3:35
" first gear for towing.
i don't know that i'd want to press what is generally a light duty
tranny design [torque rating aside] in continuous high-load service.
" You could also get a low first geared 4 speed from a Jeep Or Ford pickup
" and use high rear axle gears. Most all of these trans are going to shift
" from the top plate on the trans though.
i don't know if ford pickup toploaders are geared that deeply - afaik
most of them are set up as 3+o/d [though you could run a deep axle] -
but swapping jeep t176/7/8 gears into a side-shifter toploader case is
routine. add the 31-spline hd output shaft...
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 13:55:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Fw: AMC Trannys: 727s, OD, a518 & various ??'s
To: jd.greenplate@xxxxxxx, mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200606151755.k5FHtas13150@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
"
" Josh below is new to AMC, so welcome to AMC. He has a number of questions
" about transmissions, hopefully some of you that are experienced in this
" field can help him out, please feel free to reply and also copy your reply
" to Josh who would appreciate it although he may be joining here and also
" will be reading this list. Thanks to all who might reply.
"
" ----- Original Message -----
" From: <jd.greenplate@xxxxxxx>
"
"
" > Eddie,
" > I'm 15 and am restoring a 72 AMX as my first car. I have a few questions
" > regarding transmissions. First, does any 2wd chrysler 727 bolt to my AMC
" > 360? I believe that the gear reduction starter on a chrysler is on the
" > drivers side, and has the solinoid built in, whereas an AMC uses a ford
" > starter on the passeger side with the solinoid in the engine compartment,
" > correct? Do I need a 727 from a Jeep or AMC, or can a chrysler work? If
" > using a chrysler transmission, are the bellhousing bolts the same, and if
" > so is a chrysler starter needed. Is there a ford starter that will work,
" > or can one be modified? Also, have you ever seen an a518 in an AMC. In
" > Hemmings Muscle Machines, it says that this 4 speed OD, based off of the
" > 727, bolts to any 72-78 AMC, and I'm sure this tranny has a drivers side
" > starter. If I could, I would prefer the a518 due to $3.00 gas, though I
" > can get a 30,000 mile 727 at reasonable cost. I am willing and able to
" > modify slightly if needed, as I have access to a garage. If either works
" > what would you recommend?
no, mopar and amc cases are different though internals are the same;
you will need an amc case. you're right about the starter situation.
hemmings is wrong. the a518 is based on the 727 but was only made
with mopar [a-block] cases. a beefier a618 was made for the cummins
b5.9.
afaik there never was an amc/jeep a500 or a518, though jeeps did use
the 42re [electronic a500] with the amc/jeep 4.0. opinions differ as
to whether and/or how much work de-electronifying would be; the hitch
is modifying the o/d back to hydraulic control. otoh the 42re was
first used in the '94 grand cherokee and if they have a standalone tcm
like '94 cherokees do, you could just swipe that.
the 727 takes a lot of hp to spin, nearly double what a 998 takes, and
for a 360 in a relatively light car the 998 built with a towing/rv or
police/taxi setup would have good strength.
another path - jeep used gm th400s up until '80, and because of the
scarcity of [amc/]jeep pattern cases adapter rings have been made to
use gm th400s. these can be used to mount a th700r4 or th200/4r.
see advanceadapters.com .
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 14:05:37 -0400
From: "Belden, Michelle" <BeldenM@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] For Sale
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<A26FFA706F9B0546B02E0AE5CE9686C60200C8C8@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
For Sale:
Video production of 2005 Great AMC Day IV. All 49 races, 36 min in
length. AMC only drag racing action!
See a sample at http://home.neo.rr.com/javelin
Please send check or money order for $20.00 plus $3.00 ($23.00 total)
to:
Dave Okey
10641 Middlebranch Ave. N.E.
Hartville OH 44632
Thanks!
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 14:09:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 2006 - 55 = 1968
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200606151809.k5FI9X713251@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "Mahoney, John" <jmahoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
"
"
" >>
" afaik since they introed the 472 they've had only one caddy v8 [472,
" 500, 425, 368], and that was a redesign of the previous 390/429.
" <<
"
" No, it wasn't. GM's leap beyond the 440 and 462 (Chrysler and
" Lincoln) for 1968 was an *all-new* engine. The 390's 4.00 x 3.875
" had been bored and stroked (4.13 x 4.00) in '64, but [80-pound
" heavier] 472 was 4.30 x 4.06. The '70 500 was a 472 stroked to
" 4.30 that, until 505 V-10 Viper debuted in '03, remained modern US
" regular production displacement king. The 472, lightened (by
" 100-pounds) and lessened (4.08 x 4.06 = 425; 3.80 x 4.06 = 368),
" became the L33, L35, and L61.
i stand corrected. either way, if the caddy hei does fit the amc,
it'd be from a mid/late-'70s 472-gen v8.
and btw i recall when the 472 came out, a caddy engineer said 'there
was room for 600 cubic inches'...
ps. '67 was the swan song for the ford 'mel' engine family. i
speculate that some emission reg kicked in for '68 that caused lincoln
to switch to the 460 starting 1/01 - mid-model-year. in some ways
this was a step down; since the 462 [and ancestor 430] was built only
for lincoln, they could afford to be more particular about it. i read
in the lcoc club newsletter that every one of these engines was run
for 2h on a dyno, including 30m at full throttle, prior to assembly
line installation. certainly it is true if anecdotal that they are
famous for going 250 000 miles without needing overhaul.
i don't think the 460 has that kind of rep.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 14:19:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] T5 comments
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200606151819.k5FIJxU13303@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "Jim Boone" <fljab@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"
"
" Something I'd like to add to this; As some of you may know, I have a '69
" American with a '70 390. It had a T10 in it when I bought the car, but I
" like OD transmissions, and got a deal on a complete SVO T5 setup that came
" out of a Spirit-bellhousing to driveshaft.
"
" Mark is right about the torque ratings afaik. World Class doesn't always
" mean higher torque rating. Mine being the SVO version is rated at 330 or
" 335 (I've seen both listed for my part #). Either way, it's the strongest
" one they make to my knowledge. I've only used this car on the street, but
" it's held up quite well and has been a great improvement.
i agree. iirc the stock '86-9 5.0 wc is rated 260; the '90-3 300.
" I'm not sure if I have the 2.95 or 3.35 1st, but OD is .68 iirc.
iirc 3.35; 2.95 came with 0.63 or 0.80 aftermkt.
it wasn't until relatively recently that svo had a 3.35 t5. for
years they were all 2.95 only.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 12:54:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: JOE FULTON <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Little Tiny Cat
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060615195435.69287.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Well, I have shifted gears on my projects and the 64
Classic with the intermittant "no oil to the valves"
problem has been pushed aside for now. As I posted
before, it will also need the throw-out lever and
bearing looked at before anything else happens. I
also have another T-96 with OD tranny I can put in it.
I am now working on a 77 Gremlin X with the 258 and
auto tranny with the non-feedback BBD carb. This car
is certificated for CA emissions and has two catalytic
convertors. The first is just a wide spot in the
exhaust pipe which looks like a snake which had
swallowed a gerbil. The second is a more conventional
oval cylinder below the floorboards.
This two-cat arrangement is the first one I had seen
and I assume that AMC did it as a jury rig to pass CA
emissions until the feedback carb was developed,
probably in 1978 or 79. The engine I am putting in
the car came from a 76 Hornet which I had parted out
recently.
I had already mentioned in a previous post, the "high
stall" convertor I found on the Gremlin X. The tranny
shop which overhauled the 904 tranny said they didn't
have any data and could not tell me the stall speed
for the torque convertor.
According to the literature I have read (Don't ask me
where, because I couldn't tell you now.) the 2-bbl 258
engine was supposed to have a hotter cam too, but I
don't know the specs. If anyone can shed any light
on this, I would appreciate it.
BTW the term above "jury rig" is a nautical term and
it's not "jerry rig" or "gerry rig" or anything else.
Pet peeve from an ex-Navy guy.
Joe Fulton
Salinas, CA
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 18:21:26 -0400
From: "Jim Boone" <fljab@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 3 sp transmission
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY116-F181A7F6B8CBE2207B5F300AC820@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 20:01:27 -0700 (PDT)
>From: d stohler <das24rules@xxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [AMC-List] someone wanted a v8 3 spd
>
>i didnt catch the name, but i saw someone was wanting a 3 spd that will
>hold up to a v8. i have a t86 3 speed with overdrive. it is in great shape.
><snip>i the overdrive has the torque tube mount on it. it was the factory
>option for the v8 ramblers is what i have been able to find. i have been
>told that my stock t96 shift linkage would work so i imagine yours would
>also. i do not have a bellhousing or anything else.
I don't think this will work because of the torque tube mount; I'd need a
regular yoke setup. Don't know if it's a simple matter of taking that off,
maybe someone here can elaborate. I'd still need to come up with the
correct tailshaft, yoke, and bellhousing IF a later bell would work as a
bolt-on with this trans. That's why I like to find complete setups that I
know have/will work together.
Anyone know if a '71 up bell mount to this transmission?
Jim Boone
Mims, FL
------------------------------
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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 5, Issue 33
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