Re: Rambler Owner Needs Help in LA (232 chatter)

[Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx>]

I moved that page a while back and it can be found at 
http://www.mattsoldcars.com/RestoreAmerican/boltmod.shtml. Note that this 
does not apply to the shaft rocker sixes made after 1971 since those 
engines have oil feed through the push rods.

AMC knew about the problem with rocker arm oiling (which is what the TSB 
covers) within a few years of the engine hitting the general public. The 
TSB was issued 12/21/1967. It's basically a maintenance issue. If you 
change the oil when you're supposed to, you will not have a problem. That 
being said, I did this to the 232 in my 68 American when I rebuilt it.

If the lifter chatter only happens during start up and goes away after a 
few seconds, that's considered normal (this is called out in the owner's 
manual) and the fix is to turn the radio up ;^).

The first thing to check for is an oil pressure problem. The valve train on 
the early shaft rocker sixes is supplied off of the cam bearings. If those 
are worn, you will never have good oil pressure and the rockers and valves 
will get very little to no oil (my 232 was bone dry). The easiest way to 
diagnose this is to remove the pipe plug just above the oil filter and 
connect a pressure gauge to it. You should have no less than 13psi hot. My 
engine runs about 30-40 psi when could and a hair less than 20 psi hot at 
idle. If the oil pressure's good, the next thing is to do is remove the oil 
fill cap with the engine running and make sure that oil's being flung 
about. The oil doesn't come gushing out but you should be able to see it 
coming out around the rocker arm. If oil pressure is good and you don't see 
oil around the rocker arms, it's possible that the oil feed is plugged.

The bad news is that if the oil feed is plugged and it's making noise, the 
rocker shaft and all of the rockers are likely trash (Kanter Auto Products 
sells rebuilt assemblies). You're probably going to need new valve guides 
and maybe a few valves as well. This is easy enough to check once the valve 
cover is off. If the rocker arms and shaft are worn, there will be a bunch 
of slop in them. The shaft assembly is easy enough to take apart and 
inspect but once you take the bolts and the special spacer washers out of 
it, you can move the rockers around enough to see what's going on -- even 
wear pattern good, gouges and steps bad. I'd also say that if the valves 
move much, the guides are probably shot.

On a brighter note, these engines will take a lot of abuse. I'm not sure 
exactly how much my car was driven without oil pressure but the rocker 
shaft was about half worn through in most places and I think I had in 
excess of 1/4" play in the valve guides. Other than a bunch of noise, the 
engine actually started easily and ran well.

Matt

At 09:23 AM 4/11/2005 -0400, you wrote:
> I'm not down there anymore, but the problem is likely clogged/stuck 
> lifters or oil passages in the block (since he replaced the lifters). Some 
> people have had good luck flushing the engine out. Either buy the engine 
> flush or replace a quart of oil with a quart of diesel fuel. Run the 
> engine for about 30-45 minutes but don't drive it! Engine just need to get 
> up to full running temp then be run another 15 minutes. This should free 
> up a lot of sludge in the engine -- hopefully won't clog the lifters when 
> it does. I suspect he had noise to begin with and that's why the lifters 
> were replaced.
>
> One more thing, a 66 is a shaft rocker engine. Inspect the shaft for wear! 
> The "lifter noise" could be rockers loose on the shaft. AMC issued a fix 
> for the shaft oiling problem, either modify the bolt the oil comes up 
> through or use an external oil line (the bolt is the better solution!). 
> Matt has the bolt fix on his website 
> (http://www.mattsoldcars.com/techinfo/boltmod.shtml). I'm not sure if AMC 
> installed a modified bolt in later engines or not, but suspect they did 
> something after the problem was discovered. But then it may not have been 
> apparent until 1970 or so, and the bridged rocker arms came out in 1971 
> (the rocker shaft came back in 73-early 74 because of a design dispute 
> with GM, but those years the problem was fixed, and of course bridged 
> rockers reappered in mid 74).
>
> If you call get an address so you can send him a copy of that page. I 
> don't have a printer or anything right now! Will by the end of the week, I 
> hope!
>
>
> On April 11, 2005 Greg Taylor wrote:
>
> > Hi Everyone,
> > I got a call over the weekend from a '66 Rambler owner down South (LA).  He
> > recently installed a new oil pump and lifters in his '66 232 and has some
> > lifter chatter going on.  I'm not all too familiar with the earlier 
> 232, so I'm
> > passing along his contact info.
> >
> > JIMMIE in Louisiana (337)-365-1522
> > '65 Rambler w/232
> >
> > If someone can help him out, he doesn't have email/internet.  Shoot me back
> > your phone number and I'll pass it along to him, or you can call him 
> directly.
> >
> > Thanks for your guys & gals expertise in this area!
> >
> > Sincerely,
> > Greg Taylor  :)   <><
> > Rochester Hills, Michigan USA
> >
> > "I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the 
> fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 
> and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead." - The 
> Apostle Paul (Philippians 3:10-11)

mhaas@xxxxxxx
Cincinnati, OH
http://www.mattsoldcars.com
1967 Rambler American wagon
1968 Rambler American sedan
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