"Sanford & Sons Specialty Shop"

["Brien Tourville" <hh7x@xxxx>]

On 5 Sep 2002 at 20:42, 

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 23:09:42 EDT
From: baad73grem@xxxx
Subject: Re: Digest Number 640

In a message dated 9/3/02 4:29:56 PM SA Pacific Standard Time, 
themixtoo@xxxx writes:


> 
> Bart, not everybody is try'n to cut the quarter in nine seconds. I
> used that T10 and with 3.54 gears for the trip to Kenosha and I'll
> never do that again without some type of overdrive. that 5-speed
> idea from the Mustang sounds just right. And, if it has to be
> AMCish, some Jeeps had these trannys too. Don't get mad, just my 2
> cents. The Mix 
> 
> 
> 

I'm not mad,its just Briens Sanford and Son tactics sometimes are 
just
total B.S i mean these fantasy Junkyards he fathoms up are just that
fantasy!!like anyone can just up and hit their local JY'ds and walla
they have Cobra 5 speeds most Gremlin guys on here barely can turn a
wrench so these brainiac or Brieniac mods are waaay outta reach for
some on here and also i was defending the T 10,i mean theres nothing
wrong with it,Brien made it like it was a school bus trans so thats
why i bitched!!nuff said Bart Mangrum 73 Gremlin 360 88 Chevy S10"for
sale?" 60 Ford F100 77 Ford F100?


- . - 

Well ,.......I'm Flattered.......

OK Class - Roll up for "The Mystery Tour" .....

"For many of us , the hoys of driving our AMC performance
cars are tempered by poor mileage, balky shifters, and steep rear-end 
gears giving a zillion rpms at highway crusing speeds. For those of 
us who do (or would like to) use these vehicles on a daily basis, 
help is at hand in the Borg-Warner T-5 World Class five speed 
transmission.

This modern transmission is capable of handling the power of a mildly 
modified 401 reliably, and is very nearly a "Bolt-up" to the 1972 & 
up 232 - 258 sixes and all 290-401 V-8s. You will gain a 5th gear 
overdrive for improved gas mileage and relaxed highway cruising 
(1900rpm at 70mph); shifting ease through improved synchromesh design 
and material, coupled with an internal rail shifter that simplifies 
packaging and shifter maintenance."

SO......here is some INFO for those aspiring to a 
World Class T-5 Conversion :)


>From Manual of Manuals -
"D&D Performance educates us on all things T- 5 " :)

Manual transmissions, though more easily understood than 
their slushbox counterparts , are a source of mystery to 
many. 

When bench-racing turns to the five-speeds that take all 
the abuse in 5.0 Mustangs , there can be more
bull flung than at the average slaughterhouse. 

.....Intention is to focus primarily on this Borg-Warner
sourced five speed.

'85 - '89 5.0 265 lb.ft.

Though there was no change in torque specs, starting in '85 5.0 
Mustang production T-5s were all of World Classs Spec, 
resulting in a vastly improved gearbox , particularly in terms
of stability and synchronizer capacity.

During this span, Ford also mounted a shifter that had much 
shorter throws and a bit higher effort. This short throw shifter
is recognizable by its gold cadmium-colored baseplate.
Longer throw shifter bases are black.

'90 - '95 5.0 300 lb. ft.

Production units now featured the super alloy or "double-moly" SAE 
4615 and 4620 steel in second and third gear and the countershaft.
The second and third gears have a slightly "straighter"gear pitch and 
altered tooth counts, resulting in a minor change to the second and 
third gear ratios. This was a Ford and Borg-Warners' response to the 
third gear failures occurring in the earlier units, as the 
aftermarket continued to boost the 5.0 horsepower and torque output.

Sometime in '90 or '91 , Ford went back to a slightly longer-throw, 
lower effort shifter ( though still better than the '83 - '84 unit) 
apparently to appease some owners complaints about high shift effort.

In 1992 , Borg-Warner began treating all T-5 countershafts with a 
black phosphate coating, providing for a speedier break-in.

In designing the SN95, an ( unsuccessful) attempt by Fort to permit 
assembly line insertion of the complete engine/transmission package 
from the top meant '94 and later Mustangs have an input shaft and 
bearing retainer some 17mm longer than '79 to '93 cars. Ford changed 
this retainer from aluminum to steel for the SN95 application.

D&D Performance had noticed a lot of galling on the aluminum 
retainers when doing rebuilds, so they had Borg-Warner make them up 
special shorter steel retainers to fit the '93 and earlier boxes. 
They offer these steel retainers for 449.00 and include them 
in all their complete aftermarket units.

'93 - '95 Cobra 310 lb. ft.

The individual straight roller bearings in the "pocket"
where the input and output, or main shafts meet were replaced by a 
tapered roller bearing assembly. This is the key area of support for 
the output shaft. "This gives better alignment to the gears, 
"according to Don Jr." and greatly improves durability .
We thought this was a great idea, so we specified it for the special 
3.35 geared T-5s that Borg-Warner builds for us ($999.00)

The production '93 - '95 non-Cobra T-5s do not have this feature : 
they retained the individual roller bearings.


- . - 

OK - so that is the primer on selection.

World Class - if you are in doubt while in
one of my "Fantasy Junkyards" (.....)

- or - 

on www.car-part.com ....... or any of the Ford Mustang
groups on Yahoo.com - or - Mustang Message Boards - or - 
Mustang chat groups - or - .......get the "hint" ? - 
Screw "Bubbys' Clunker Salvage" and use the INTERNET!!
......Putz!...........:) 

The Economy is BAD & parts are out there - much better prices
are to be had off the Internet Mustang Groups - as these guys
have parts & parts cars hanging around or know of one & quick cash 
talks BIG.

Sign up for one of these on Yahoo - & start asking if anyone has
seen one around that is taking up too much space in someones garage..

I just landed the ENTIRE 1988 Cherokee Renix ELECTRONIC FUEL 
INJECTION for my Kammback - manifold / injectors / computer / 
wire harness / brackets / sensors - etc. for the Princely Sum of 
$100.00 . This goes for over $500.00 in a Salvage Yard - IF you can
get the guy to pull the wire harness without trashing it - .

So ask around - save your lunch money if you think
a slick 5 speed would be *RIGHT* in your GremRide .

Sometimes you just 'gotta 'Dump a Load' to get it right......:)-
'Ya Know ?


So for you 'Never Say Die ' Yard Rats - :

The Only external identifiers are the transmission that ( which can 
be missing or switched) and the 
countershaft bearing at the front of the case.

If the bearing is stamped "Torrington", the transmission is NOT a 
World Class unit.

A larger two color (gray with a macnined outer ring bearing market 
"Timkin" identifies a World Class T-5 .

The World Class transmissions are about 50% stronger than the non-
World Class Units.

Installation is essentioally a matter of unbolting the old clutch, 
bellhousing and transmission and replacing with the new parts.
You will have to cut a new shifter hole in the floor pan as well.

PARTS REQUIRED

(1) T5 World Class transmission (used $450.00 and up in 'Yards') from 
1985 up 5.0 Mustang Only !

(1) Clutch disc, 101/16 diameter, 10 spline O.D. to match your 
existing pressure plate (check parts book at auto parts store - an 
AMC part that can work is p/n#3240539 )

(1) AMC T10 speedometer cable (Use a cable made for your particular 
body with a T-10) or use a Javelin cable (it's longer and thus gives 
you more flexibility).

(1) Speedometer driven gear , available from Ford for the 2.73 & 3.08 
rear end ratios (these are close enough to AMCs' 2.87 and 3.15 ratios 
that the speedometer will normally be off by 4% and 2% respectively.

You can juggle tire size to compenstate , if desired). A 255/6014 on 
a 7" rim will be under 1% off with a 3.15 rear end : a 2.87 would 
need a slightly taller tire.
Because of the deeper first gear, I personally do not recommend any 
deeper rear end ratios (like 3.54 etc.) as first gear will become 
virtually unusable ( like a "granny" gear).

(1) Pilot bushing (AMC), use AMC part number 323 6726 .

(1) Bellhousing, throwout arm a bearing (AMC 6 & V8, 1977 & newer) 
about $20.00 in junkyard (bellhousing part #323 7585 , throwout 
bearing part #323 7553).

(1) Backup light switch connector. If you are replacing a SR-4 
transmission. the T5 uses the same connector and switch; just plug 
the connector back into the new switch.

Otherwise - salvage the connector from the junkyard when you the the 
transmission, or buy it from AMC parts ( the backup switch is 
internal).

(1) Yoke, transmission. If you are replacing an SR-4 (the 4-speed 
found 1976-1981), use the old yokd( it is identical). Otherwise, get 
a SR-4 yoke. NOTE: the yokes found on the 1979 and older seem to be 
longer, giving more spline contact to the output shaft; I would 
recommend this yoke as having a higher torque capacity. If a yoke 
comes with the Ford transmission, it will work as well.

(1) Driveshaft. If you are replacing an SR-4 , you can use the 
existing driveshaft after shortening it about 2" ( the T5 is a longer 
transmission), otherwise use any later driveshaft( like from a 
Concord) and shorten it appropriately.

(1) Bearing retainer, front. This needs to be replaced of modified 
on the T5 .
You can replace it with the retainer from an AMC 1982 & up T4 or T5 
(AMC part #813 4013) , but I suggest modifying the existing retainer 
to fit. The flange area (big end) is .060" - too big in diabeter to 
fit into the AMC bellhousing. I suggest taking the Ford T-5 retainer 
(as it is much stronger) and your bellhousing to your local machine 
shop and have them turn down the flange to permit to fit into the 
bellhousing . It costs about $5.00 .

(1) Transmission mount. Use the SR-4 trans mount. You will probably 
have to fabricate an adaptor between the T-5 and the SR-4 mount, and 
perhaps to adapt the transmission mount to the crossmember. 

The mounting surface of the T5 is tilted 5 degrees to the right; you 
will have to either tilt and put spacers between one side of the 
crossmember and the frame rail , or compensate by twisting the 
adaptor braket. This is where the only fabrication is needed.

(!) Shifter handle. The transmission will probably come without a 
handle. I modified a handle from a SR-4 shifter so I could use the 
stock AMC shift knob. Note: The shift handle coumes out of the 
transmission about 3" further back than that on a SR-4 trans. In a 
Spirit AMX or other vahicle using a console and / or armrest between 
the seats - there will probably be a space conflict. Of course, 
compared to a T-10, where the shifter is mounted to the side of the 
transmission, there will now be a hole in the carpet where the old 
shifter position was (use a carpet for a column shift car). The 
floorpan will probably have to be notched back as well.


For additonal information contact :

Tom Bunsey
33 Adams Street 
Newlsonville, OH 45764
(614) 797-9636


- . - 

That IS the Gig for you 'Jammers' - 

A 5 speed will add tremendous versatility to
a Street Ride - you'll have a gear for every 
occasion .

Good Hunting!

Brien
1981 AMC
'milners coupe'