Re: [AMC-list] hydrogen-powered Gremlin for sale...

[adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)]

sorry this turned out to be a little long...  amc content: keeping our
rides on the road with alternative fuels.

" From: Bruce Griffis <bruce.griffis@xxxxxxxxx>
" 
" Hydrogen is cool and all, but I am a fan of twice-fried french fries
" and the occasional donut. I'm thinking vegetable oil and a small Isuzu
" diesel would be the hot ticket for my horrible diet.

toyota has just about the perfect diesel repower for jeep cherokees
and wranglers, as they sourced the same aisin warner trannies.  alas,
while it's widely used from australia across southeast asia and india
to europe, they don't bring it to north america.  rough guess - my
cherokee would be up near 40mpg with one...

" Hand me that twinkie, wouldya? I need ta deep-fry it so I can have
" some fuel for my car.

i'd suggest turning that oil into biodiesel after frying instead of
trying to run it straight.  it's much easier on the car.

you can increasingly buy biodiesel; there's at least 1 co around here
that'll deliver if you order ~250gal.  that's the size of an oil
furnace tank...  oh and btw furnaces like biodiesel just fine too.
nb. didja know there's -no-limit- on sulfur in heating oil?  it can be
typically 1000x what's in low-sulfur diesel.

gasprices.mapquest.com can locate alternate-fuel stations.

" I used to have a Mercedes 190D a million years
" ago. I liked that old, slow diesel. Hydrogen? Nah, fried shrimp
" po-boys, thank you very much.

that wasn't about a '60 model was it?  my granny had a 190c, the gas
version.  iirc the diesel was geared to redline at 55mph - on the
flat, uphill, downhill...  also, the secret to on-the-road repairs was
to find a truck stop with a thermo-king mechanic, as they used the
mill in their reefer trailers.

there was another 190d in the mid-late '80s, not a million years ago
to ramblernauts...

" From: tom jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
" 
" Gourmet food trucks are a big thing right now in Los Angeles, and one of
" them runs one it's own used fry oil!
" 
" There was even a vegetable oil conversion car shop here in the Silver Lake
" neighborhood that was very busy for a a few years, then it closed up shop...
" vegetable oil is a fine fuel in theory, but in practice, it's pretty
" physically crappy. They were good techs, and knew about filtration etc.

svo has limited practicality.  it needs to be heated to coolant temps
even for more-tolerant older diesels, and near 300 to match
petrodiesel viscosity, which modern common-rail diesels are very picky
about.  and none of that is very practical for auto diesels which are
shut off most of the time, with impatient drivers who have to -go- the
second the engine starts.  otoh trucks or construction machinery that
spend a lot of time running or at least hot [ups for example]...

biodiesel otoh needs no conversion - it's all handled in the fuel.
the triglyceride [all bio fats and oils are triglycerides] has its
glycerin replaced with 3 alcohols, usually petro-derived methanol but
can be ethanol.  viscosity is very close to petrodiesel.  dirty little
secret - what to do with all that byproduct glycerin, which would
flood present mkts 100x.  biodiesel also needs additives to function
below 20-30 degrees.

there's another alternative on the horizon - butanol.  what's cool
about it?  it is to gasoline what biodiesel is to petrodiesel, a
biofuel you can just pour into your tank, at least for any car that
has an o2 feedback sensor.  www.butanol.com proved that; what they
haven't yet done afaik is show an efficient production method.  dupont
and [unfortunately] bp are working on that angle.  but if it ever
becomes widely available, it's something you could use in your old
rambler pretty easily.

" The real problem is (1) there simply isn't ever going to be enough of the
" stuff for more than a few thousand cars even in Los Angeles. I think the
" rule of thumb is, if every single acre of arable land in the United States
" was 100% converted over to vegetable oil plant production, it would meet 15%
" of U.S. passenger car fuel consumption!

i've heard the reverse, that all our motor fuel needs could be
supplied with a [large] fraction of farmland production.

a lot depends on crop productivity...

" But wow -- I thought driving a propane-fueled Rambler was a PITA (it was!),
" always looking for those white tanks like a constantly hungry dog --
" slogging jugs of stinky french fry oil out the back of a restaurant every
" week would get VERY TEDIOUS. We have a friend with a converted Mercedes
" diesel. She doesn't drive it much. She buys new oil sometimes because she
" simply can't stand the hassle of begging from restaurants that think she's
" some crazy bag lady. (She's a lawyer for Hollywood types.) I'd rather pedal
" that do that every day.

what begging?!?  you establish a regular business relationship!  or
you find a biodiesel dealer.

imho this shows her subconscious attitude to the issue of dealing with
her car when she'd much rather have a star trek transporter.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay                                  the genius nature
internet rambler                            is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx                       and think what none thought
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