AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 69
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 69
- From: amc-list-request@xxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 20:14:39 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. NYC to Dover in "new" 982 Jeep Truck -- anyone along the way?
(Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
2. Re: T-14 Overdrive (Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
3. Re: 2007 AMC Meets (Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
4. Re: T-96/T-14 OD swap (Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
5. Re: Rear disc brakes (was: pulling an axle)
(Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
6. Re: Rear disc brakes (was: pulling an axle) (Tom Jennings)
7. Fwd: Parts (Jim Blair)
8. Re: h*lp (Jim Blair)
9. Re: More (Jim Blair)
10. Re: T-14 Overdrive (Jim Blair)
11. rear disc brakes (Jim Blair)
12. Re: More (Savage, Pete)
13. Rambler In Los Angeles (JOE FULTON)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 08:24:10 -0500
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] NYC to Dover in "new" 982 Jeep Truck -- anyone
along the way?
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D01A38252@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I don't expect any problems after discussing my "new" J-10's condition
with the owner, but you never know! I'm only taking my Leatherman with
me. Thought about taking a small tool kit, but I doubt there's much I
could do, and you always seem to have brought everything except what you
need when you do.
Anyone on here that's between New York City and Delaware along I-95, or
in close proximity? If you don't mind, I'd like a phone number just in
case! My wife's going with me "for the ride". We will both have our cell
phones. It's only a three hour drive, but I expect to take it easy and
take four hours since it's an unfamiliar vehicle. No point in pushing
it! But it's a long walk...
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:04:42 -0500
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] T-14 Overdrive
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D01A382BF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
"Thanks for pointing the need for the 3.31 or steeper axle with OD.
You have to be carefull not to overdo, er, under gear the car!
I run a 3.31 with T-5 and about a .8 overdrive right now. [255/60/15
tires] So
figuring this ends up geared about the same as a 3.08 normal tired car
that
puts it at about a 2.46 final drive.
It does real well with this combo.
When I put the new T5 with .64 overdrive in I intend to move up to an
S-10 two
wheel drive, disc brake rear axle with 3.42 ratio. I think I may end up
under
egared though as this will end up at about 2.04 final in OD. Maybe it
will work
with torque of the EFI 4.0L, but now that I do the numbers I may have
to look
for a steeper geared axle. The two wheels drive S-10 axles measure in
about 54
3/8" this is about 2" narrower then the stock American axle. I'll
probably run
spacers for the time being, but as I run a wheel with 4 1/4" switching
to a 3
1/4" backspace wheel at a later date will likely happen as they are a
standard
aftermarket wheel at that offset."
-------------------------------
I found out too. I ran a 3.08 with my AW4 (0.70:1 OD, same as the old
Borg Warner units -- all were the same ratio) for a while. The stroker
will pull it, but will labor at cruising speed unless you're running
85+. No point in using fifth gear until you hit 80 (I could shift into
OD after 70 and it would still labor). LABOR, but NOT STRAIN. There's a
difference! The engine would pull the gear with no problem at all, but
you could tell it was working harder, especially in gas mileage. I
wanted a 3.31 -- I think that's the best compromise power/mileage gear
for a 0.70:1 OD. I ran that with the stock 4.0L and T-96 (T-96 is to
weak and was replaced before it broke -- except for the synchronizer)
and it was wonderful with a stick. I'm running a 3.55 with my AW4 now
and it's about right. Runs like a stock Cherokee, which also has a 3.55
rear. I always thought a 3.31 would be perfect for a Cherokee and the
3.55 was used to get a bit more towing power (higher weight rating), but
now I'm not so sure. My engine runs better if I keep it around 2000 rpm.
With the 3.55 gears I shift into OD if cruising over 50 (which is only
1600 rpm, otherwise keep it out. At 2000 rpm I'm running 70 mph with the
205/70R15 tires. Wanted to run 65's, but had to run 70s to keep the
diameter up so the speedo would read correctly. Couldn't get 16's in the
backset I needed for the Jag axle -- 205/65R16s would have been nice!
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:10:46 -0500
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 2007 AMC Meets
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D01A38369@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
"The city of Kenosha is doing another show in 2007 but I don't have any
details handy."
-------------------------------------
July 24-28, 2007 "AMC's in the Park" 105 Years of Auto Making in
Kenosha.
This is from http://www.kenoshahistorycenter.org/content/events4.html.
I'll be in the middle of remodeling a house, but plan on taking a break
and going!! Wife and I won't be working at the time either, but I'm
thinking about staying up there for a few days anyway. Won't happen
again for a while, and I have some money saved.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:45:29 -0500
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] T-96/T-14 OD swap
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D01A3831F@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
" Was the original T-96 a NON OD? All the info I've seen say that the
T-96-OD is the same length as the T-14-OD. If so, what drive shaft did
you use? How did you modify the tranny crossmember? Thanks for your
help, I'm going to do this swap in the next year."
-------------
Ray, the T-96 standard and T-96 w/OD are the same length. That's why the
standard trans has a long output shaft and housing. I guess it was
cheaper to spec a longer output than a longer driveshaft -- or maybe
just easier/faster on the assembly line to stock one driveshaft. That
could have been more cost effective than matching driveshafts to
transmissions even if the longer trans shaft/housing cost a little more.
One bin of driveshafts fits all applications is easy to maintain. The
M-35 trans uses the same driveshaft as the T-96. I swapped a T-96 and
M-35 torque tube axle with no problems -- direct bolt in. I've used a
T-96 OD trans from a torque tube car on an open drive American and used
the American driveshaft. It look a little funny with the big flange on
the back of the trans, but works with no problems. Just make sure
there's a good trans mount if you ever do that -- the flange is only
1/4" from the trans tunnel.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:52:42 -0500
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Rear disc brakes (was: pulling an axle)
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D01A38330@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
"But on the clamp-on disk brake setup Mark points out, the
brakes are trying to rotate that bracket on the axle tube;
that's a lot of force. I think the clamp on system is brilliant
though, it lets you get everything perfectly aligned, adjusted,
tested, before welding on. A bolt as pin, into the axle tube,
probably works, but seems long-term scary to me. Suspension
parts get soaked in water and crud, take a lot of forces,
and are largely ignored."
---------------------------------
I agree with ost of your comments, but look at your suspension. There
are only a few 3/8" bolts holding the whole shebang in! Rear leaf
springs have two in front, two in back on the shackles, that's it. A
grade 8 bolt should take the necessary force of braking with no problem,
but you can drill for two. With the weld on brackets you put the rotor
on, bolt caliper to bracket, then slip caliper over rotor. Rotate until
it's where you want it then tack and check. As long as the rotor isn't
contacting the caliper all is good. The caliper will align the bracket
just fine, so there's not much difference. Anyone can drill and tap a
hole without much of a problem, welding is a different story! This is
obviously working for stock car racers, who are on and off the brakes a
lot more (and a lot harder) than a typical driver, so I'd say it's been
field tested!
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:01:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Rear disc brakes (was: pulling an axle)
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0610270951170.17006@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 27 Oct 2006, Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM wrote:
> "But on the clamp-on disk brake setup Mark points out, the
> brakes are trying to rotate that bracket on the axle tube;
> that's a lot of force.
> I agree with ost of your comments, but look at your suspension. There
> are only a few 3/8" bolts holding the whole shebang in! Rear leaf
> springs have two in front, two in back on the shackles, that's it. A
There's a huge difference -- moment arm. The axle is about 3 -
4" diameter. 500 ft/lb torque (200 ft/lb engine, 3:1 axle) on
the axle driving the tire directly translates to the axle tube.
Stamped-brake-pedal forces on that little bolt holding the
caliper clamp would have HUGE forces on it. Leaf spring systems
never see those kind of forces.
Leaf springs go 24" or so out in each direction. That's a lot
of leverage. The front spring bolt is large, 1/2" - 5/8",
is doing fore/aft load etc and is in shear. The rear spring
bolts, 3/8", are also in shear; with the leverage ratio (1"
axle shaft vs. 24" spring half) that's a lot of leverage that
3/8" bolt has over the axle rotation.
Also, the rear spring support (shackle, etc) is failsafe --
should a part catastrophically fail, the spring clunks up to the
body, bangs around a bit, and that corner of the car drops 4"
-- but no crash or disabling failure. I wouldn't want my rear
brakes to depend on one single 3/8" or so pin bolt, no matter
how sufficiently strong it might be. It could loosen, corrode,
be flawed, overtorqued, etc etc etc.
Coil spring AMC rears (torque tube and Matador leading arm style)
the tube/arm takes the axle rotational force.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:18:26 -0700
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Fwd: Parts
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F569151FB68184EE6A8137AC040@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Somehow this came to me instead of the list
plexusmed@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
need help tracking down the smaller of the two lower control arm bushings.
Do you know if these still exist?
Thanks,
Brian
(626) 301-9440
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:25:41 -0700
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] h*lp
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F293521E2CD0F18C16EBD76AC040@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
The bit that I know about the transmissions is that no, the Jeep 4 speed is
different. It's a longer trans bellhousing (if it came from a full size and
not CJ) and the tailshaft won't fit from the 3 speed either. Unless you
drive the car like it's a truck, you won't be happy with the gearing.
(likely 4:1 first gear but if it's a T18A then it's 6:1) The correct address
for future list email is mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
TOM HARTNELL tmhartnell@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
I DONT KNOW IF IM SENDING THIS TO THE WRIGHT PERSON BUT I NEED HELP. I
BROKE MY 3. SPEED TRANS THIS SUMMER AND ITS NOT FIXABLE.I BOUGHT A 1980 JEEP
WITH 360 4SPEED 4 WHEEL DRIVE .CAN I TAKE OFF THE TRANSFER CASE OFF THE 4
SPEED AND PUT THE TAIL SHAFT OF THE 3 SPEED AND PUT IT ON THE 4 SPEED
TRANS.MANUL.OR IF ANYONE HAS ONE FORSALE COULD YOU PLEASE LET ME KNOW.
TMHARTNELL@xxxxxxxxxx
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:37:33 -0700
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] More
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY110-F27B3DBCAC1CBB544E86A67AC040@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
A: Actually, the Fliberty has rear drums.
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] More
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200610262241.k9QMf5d29747@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "Mahoney, John" <jmahoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
"
"
"
" >>
" when did the xj have rear disks? afaik only the zj, wj, and
tj
" rubicon have had them. dunno about the liberty.
" <<
"
" http://www.rockcrawler.com/reviews/jeep/liberty_2002/index.asp
"
" http://tinyurl.com/yb4rlw
okay, so the liberty has disks too. how does that help an xj
swap?
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all
have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none
thought
_________________________________________________________________
Get today's hot entertainment gossip
http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip?icid=T002MSN03A07001
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:42:30 -0700
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] T-14 Overdrive
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY110-F65BB5D925F92B2744C1EEAC040@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
A: I don't know what size your tires are, but my setup is for a truck,
hauling considerably more weight (rarely empty nowadays) I have a BA 10/5 so
5th gear is .70 and I figured it out once that I was perfectly matched to
the original ratio of 3.08 with stock 205/75R15 tires. (I didn't even have
to change the speedo gear in my trans. It's within 1/10th of a mile in a 10
mile test zone)
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] T-14 Overdrive
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Jim Blair <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <24637582.1161912701888.JavaMail.root@web35>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I ran the nubers on your combo and mine and assuming 1-1 gearing
in 4th for comparison sake and a 28" tire on my car, My gearing
is steeper!
Yes it runs well and does well on mpg.
As I said I'm somewhat concerned about the .64 overdrive in the
2.95 1st gear motorsport spec trans I'm building. It specs out
to about 1790 RPM at 70 mpg with a 3.31 and just over 1800 rpm
with the propesed 3.42. Ideal is a about a 3.55 but this is not
a "stock gear" for the S10, they go straight to 3.73.
I'll reserve my judgement till I get the trans in and holdoff
till I drive it with the 3.31's then decide.
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:52:07 -0700
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] rear disc brakes
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY110-F24FB4142B0E2AEE7E8D534AC040@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
'97 up XJ is supposed to have rear discs as an option.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/s:Disc%20Brakes:22606-Model=Jeep%20Cherokee
showed an XJ conversion kit to discs as well as stock brake parts.
Teraflex disc kit:
http://www.performance4wd.com/teraflex-jeep-rear-disc-brake-kit-xj-tj-yj-zj-p-115.html
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 14:15:58 -0400
From: "Savage, Pete" <PSavage@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] More
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<BD261180E6D35F4D9D32F3E44FD3D901047B6A7D@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Folks,
My liberty has disc brakes in the rear...
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx [mailto:amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Jim Blair
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 1:38 PM
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] More
A: Actually, the Fliberty has rear drums.
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] More
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200610262241.k9QMf5d29747@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "Mahoney, John" <jmahoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
"
"
"
" >>
" when did the xj have rear disks? afaik only the zj, wj, and
tj
" rubicon have had them. dunno about the liberty.
" <<
"
" http://www.rockcrawler.com/reviews/jeep/liberty_2002/index.asp
"
" http://tinyurl.com/yb4rlw
okay, so the liberty has disks too. how does that help an xj
swap?
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all
have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none
thought
_________________________________________________________________
Get today's hot entertainment gossip
http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip?icid=T002MSN03A07001
_______________________________________________
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or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 13:14:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: JOE FULTON <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Rambler In Los Angeles
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20061027201433.74931.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Alert to all southlanders:
The AQMD vehicle buyback program has a 1965 Rambler on
their list for sale at auction tomorrow. The location
is at Adams Steel in Fontana, CA
65 AMC RAMBLER License:PER650 VIN: Z297829
That license number is a black and yellow plate.
Could be a collectible car. VIN, I think, indicates
it is a Classic (or Ambo) with V8. I am at work and
don't have my documentation with me.
Best of all possible worlds: It is a Classic
convertible in red with red vinyl interior. Low
mileage, garage kept. Dream on.
Joe Fulton
Salinas, CA
------------------------------
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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 69
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