AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 15
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 15
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- Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 06:04:31 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: rambler hot rod // backwards six (Jim Blair)
2. Re: Fw: disc brakes interchange question (amckiwi@xxxxxxxxxxxx)
3. Re: rambler hot rod // backwards six (Ken Ames)
4. Re: rambler hot rod (Jim Blair)
5. Re: rambler hot rod (Jim Blair)
6. Re: rambler hot rod // backwards six (Sandwich Maker)
7. Re: rambler hot rod // backwards six (Tom Jennings)
8. Rambler Hot Rod - con't (Brien Tourville)
9. Re: AMC intake manifolds. (Joe)
10. 343 and GOOD running 360 for sale (Joe)
11. 390 crank for sale / block also (Joe)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 18:58:30 -0700
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod // backwards six
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F135DF0CA8F9D7ACEF9B609AC120@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
A: The later Caddy V8 (including Northstar) uses a 60 degree pattern, same
as the 2.8L Chev V6 and AMC 2.5L. (I hear the Chev 2.5L had 2 different bolt
patterns) I don't think there is enough room (at the bellhousing) to swap an
AMC motor into the BOP TH425 or later Caddy FWD trans.
Anyone know if the early AMC 6 cyls were the same pattern as anything else?
Took a long time to "nail" down the FACT the early Jeep TH400s were nailhead
trannies (I finally did the match up)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod // backwards six
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200610040420.k944KxD13613@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: farna@xxxxxxx
"
" 4.1L V-6 (larger version of the 231 -- I wonder if SBC
pattern?)
they're both buicks, with the b-o-p pattern. some time in the
mid
'80s, fwd 3.8s started using the little gm pattern that the amc
four
has, but only in transverse apps afaik.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all
have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none
thought
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 10:09:51 +0800
From: amckiwi@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Fw: disc brakes interchange question
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1160014191.4524696f841bb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I did the matador brake conversion on my 64 Classic
Your conversion may differ slightly as my car is RHD
It is a straight bolt on job but I had to use customised flexible hoses at the
time as did not get the Matador ones with the conversion.
The standard classic hoses were not quite long enuf and stretched on full lock
when i tested the setup.
I suggest you get new hoses if possible as insurance.
While the job is not dificult do not attempt it unless you are skilled enough
to do it. Ramblers are not much fun without brakes.
I have kept the standard unboosted brake master cylinder after removing the
check valve for the front brakes.
This gives you an ABS type set up as it is virtualy impossibile to lock up the
front brakes.
I have a booster to go on the car at some stage to fix that.
This along with the conversion to electric wipers is one of the best things I
have done to my car.
Cheers
Stu
Melbourne
Australia
Quoting Sandwich Maker <adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
> " ----- Original Message -----
> " From: rclaudio@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> "
> "
> " hi eddie need to know if the disc brakes assy. would fit a 63 rambler
> " classic ...disc brake assy could be a 68 javelin cause they also use
> " trunnion suspension. any help or ideas would work....thaks rich
> " _______________________________________________
>
> it could be any amc disks; they all bolt on the same way, with
> separate spindles and knuckles. the '60s brakes are the worst, most
> expensive ahd hard to get parts for, and most troublesome. '82-3 are
> the best from parts availability standpoint, but any of the '77-newer
> hornet/gremlin etc bendix stuff isn't bad. the big brakes used on
> matadors are more powerful but parts are getting harder to find.
>
> you'll need everything back to the spindles [disk and drum spindles
> are not the same], and master cylinder and proportioning valve.
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Andrew Hay the genius nature
> internet rambler is to see what all have seen
> adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 21:11:03 -0600
From: Ken Ames <ameskg@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod // backwards six
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1160017863.452477c7c1f51@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
IIRC the TER front drives put the engine pretty much over the axle - neither in
front nor behind. Might need some weight in the front to keep it from becoming a
wheelstander. :)
Ken
Quoting farna@xxxxxxx:
Best setup for a mid engine is the Toro/Eldo/Riv axle. Just make
> the adapter! Those were used in Corvairs with 455s and such in the middle of
> the car, there may be an adapter for an SBC also. Not that it would help with
> an AMC engine.
>
> --
> Frank Swygert
> Publisher, "American Motors Cars"
> Magazine (AMC)
> For all AMC enthusiasts
> http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html
> (free download available!)
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 20:22:58 -0700
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F266A637B5B60E790FAC19BAC120@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
A: I didn't know it was a 6 till today. I think a D44 from an FSJ would be
just the ticket, along with whatever trans and a Dana 20 tcase (short
adapters are available. Maybe a BW from a V8 with 6 cyl bell and FMX to D20
adapter?) I have seen Mitsubishi 6 cyl diesels in Dodges, but not Nissan
ones. IH ran the Nissan diesel with std trans and 727 auto as well as CJ10s
and overseas Jtrucks.
Auto trans wouldn't need to be run backwards with the tcase gutted to run
the front.
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200610031803.k93I3o609164@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"
" A: Now that I see the original post, some things are a little
clearer.
"
" My take:
" Front axle should be a Dana 60 (or maybe 9". Dana 44 if not
too much power
" is made) flipped from a 4x4. D30 won't take much power to kill
if it's the
" only drive axle.
imho a d60 would be monstrous overkill for a little light track
car. i
agree about the d30 though.
" OR
" Rear motor facing forwards using Jeep 727 trans and NP208
tcase from a CJ10
" tug shifted to 4 high (I drove my '83 Cherokee for several
months this way
" with no rear driveshaft) The one from a tug is built stronger
than a regular
" Jeep one (wider chain, etc) as they are used to move planes on
the tarmack
" with a Nissan diesel.
the nissan was also available in dodge pickups about then, so i
wouldn't be surprised if the t/c is a np208d. one of the tricks
for
beefing a jeep nv231 t/c is to use 231d dodge sprockets and
chain, as
they're wider then the 231j parts.
i don't think an auto trans would take kindly to being spun
backeards
though - unless you're talking about projecting fwd of the axle
and
driving it from the front. but if you're thinking of this --
" Balancing the weight/power will be the toughest part. Too bad
the Tornado
" didn't come with a Nailhead motor. Then you could use an FSJ
adapter ring
" from a TH400 to bolt it up!
-- then why not project the driveline back behind the rear axle
and
use a t/c to reverse direction and drive the axle from the back?
offset the engine/tranny to the right and place them so the
tailshaft
is about over [or under?] the axle. strip the t/c of everything
it
doesn't need, low range for a start. maybe make a custom case
with
only the sprockets and chain. divorce it from the tranny and
put it
on short driveshafts from the tranny and to the axle.
imho the axle would work best if the diff were also offset, to
the
left. start with something like a narrow-track cj quadratrac
d44;
it's probably offset the wrong way so pull the tubes off and
swap
them. i'd also suggest pressing them back onto a high-pinion
ford
front chuck; hypoid r&p are stronger pushing than pulling. or
just
call one of the custom axle places like currie and hand 'em your
specs.
or you could use/make a d44-based irs, like the jag or corvette
[or
viper?].
" From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
"
" So I've been thinking and drawing over the last year or so
ideas
" for a rambler hot rod. Six cylinder, sort of "old style" rod,
" track-roadster-ish. Two seats. Open wheels (motorcycle-type
" fenders), no doors, no roof.
"
" I really want a mid-engine car, but Hallibrand transaxles are
" out of my range, but I think I've come up with a scheme for a
" rear engine, front drive car, using a jeep or eagle front
axle.
wasn't there a relatively-recent corvette that had a transaxle?
they
oughta be showing up in junkyards...
just noodling... but what about a cord-like layout, where the
driver
and passenger sit mostly behind the engine but almost between
the rear
wheels?
" I do have this Navarro-built turbo six... but it's not a
" requirement, and might not be appropriate to run in the
street.
i think if you don't get weight/power distribution right, this
engine
would be a big mistake. likely a handful even if you do get it
right...
" The big chunks lay out OK for a 104" plus or minus wheelbase.
the cord approach would probably shoot the wheelbase up. it'd
be
novel though! thought: doesn't the jeep liberty [ugh] have ifs?
" Big HP isn't a goal, so driveline strength isn't an issue. It
" goes without saying it'll be all AMC.
you'd have to make a custom bellhousing adapter, but a midengine
kitcar-modified corvair transaxle/irs might fit the bill. iirc
it's
saginaw made, so i'd guess perhaps 250 ft-lbs for a design
limit.
" I figure standard hotrod kitcar junk for the rest of it.
Weight
" distribution won't be all that great (heavy rear), eh, I'm
" not racing.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all
have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none
thought
_________________________________________________________________
Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows Live
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 20:22:58 -0700
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F266A637B5B60E790FAC19BAC120@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
A: I didn't know it was a 6 till today. I think a D44 from an FSJ would be
just the ticket, along with whatever trans and a Dana 20 tcase (short
adapters are available. Maybe a BW from a V8 with 6 cyl bell and FMX to D20
adapter?) I have seen Mitsubishi 6 cyl diesels in Dodges, but not Nissan
ones. IH ran the Nissan diesel with std trans and 727 auto as well as CJ10s
and overseas Jtrucks.
Auto trans wouldn't need to be run backwards with the tcase gutted to run
the front.
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200610031803.k93I3o609164@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"
" A: Now that I see the original post, some things are a little
clearer.
"
" My take:
" Front axle should be a Dana 60 (or maybe 9". Dana 44 if not
too much power
" is made) flipped from a 4x4. D30 won't take much power to kill
if it's the
" only drive axle.
imho a d60 would be monstrous overkill for a little light track
car. i
agree about the d30 though.
" OR
" Rear motor facing forwards using Jeep 727 trans and NP208
tcase from a CJ10
" tug shifted to 4 high (I drove my '83 Cherokee for several
months this way
" with no rear driveshaft) The one from a tug is built stronger
than a regular
" Jeep one (wider chain, etc) as they are used to move planes on
the tarmack
" with a Nissan diesel.
the nissan was also available in dodge pickups about then, so i
wouldn't be surprised if the t/c is a np208d. one of the tricks
for
beefing a jeep nv231 t/c is to use 231d dodge sprockets and
chain, as
they're wider then the 231j parts.
i don't think an auto trans would take kindly to being spun
backeards
though - unless you're talking about projecting fwd of the axle
and
driving it from the front. but if you're thinking of this --
" Balancing the weight/power will be the toughest part. Too bad
the Tornado
" didn't come with a Nailhead motor. Then you could use an FSJ
adapter ring
" from a TH400 to bolt it up!
-- then why not project the driveline back behind the rear axle
and
use a t/c to reverse direction and drive the axle from the back?
offset the engine/tranny to the right and place them so the
tailshaft
is about over [or under?] the axle. strip the t/c of everything
it
doesn't need, low range for a start. maybe make a custom case
with
only the sprockets and chain. divorce it from the tranny and
put it
on short driveshafts from the tranny and to the axle.
imho the axle would work best if the diff were also offset, to
the
left. start with something like a narrow-track cj quadratrac
d44;
it's probably offset the wrong way so pull the tubes off and
swap
them. i'd also suggest pressing them back onto a high-pinion
ford
front chuck; hypoid r&p are stronger pushing than pulling. or
just
call one of the custom axle places like currie and hand 'em your
specs.
or you could use/make a d44-based irs, like the jag or corvette
[or
viper?].
" From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
"
" So I've been thinking and drawing over the last year or so
ideas
" for a rambler hot rod. Six cylinder, sort of "old style" rod,
" track-roadster-ish. Two seats. Open wheels (motorcycle-type
" fenders), no doors, no roof.
"
" I really want a mid-engine car, but Hallibrand transaxles are
" out of my range, but I think I've come up with a scheme for a
" rear engine, front drive car, using a jeep or eagle front
axle.
wasn't there a relatively-recent corvette that had a transaxle?
they
oughta be showing up in junkyards...
just noodling... but what about a cord-like layout, where the
driver
and passenger sit mostly behind the engine but almost between
the rear
wheels?
" I do have this Navarro-built turbo six... but it's not a
" requirement, and might not be appropriate to run in the
street.
i think if you don't get weight/power distribution right, this
engine
would be a big mistake. likely a handful even if you do get it
right...
" The big chunks lay out OK for a 104" plus or minus wheelbase.
the cord approach would probably shoot the wheelbase up. it'd
be
novel though! thought: doesn't the jeep liberty [ugh] have ifs?
" Big HP isn't a goal, so driveline strength isn't an issue. It
" goes without saying it'll be all AMC.
you'd have to make a custom bellhousing adapter, but a midengine
kitcar-modified corvair transaxle/irs might fit the bill. iirc
it's
saginaw made, so i'd guess perhaps 250 ft-lbs for a design
limit.
" I figure standard hotrod kitcar junk for the rest of it.
Weight
" distribution won't be all that great (heavy rear), eh, I'm
" not racing.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all
have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none
thought
_________________________________________________________________
Share your special moments by uploading 500 photos per month to Windows Live
Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.get.live.com/spaces/features
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 23:27:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod // backwards six
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200610050327.k953RZF20486@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: farna@xxxxxxx
"
" " The Halibrand transaxle (used in #50) is REALLY SHORT, sort of
" " visible in these photos:
" "
" " http://www.cacklefest.com/images/motor-mounted.jpg
" " http://www.cacklefest.com/images/striping-002.jpg
" "
" " (Note distance motor to axle CL)
"
" couldn't see much. does the halibrand put the gearbox behind the
" axle? unless it does i don't see how it could be much different than
" the c5 setup.
" ------------------
"
" You can see how long the Halibrand setup is in the second photo though.
" A short 4x4 trans with Jag/'vette IRS would be about the same length.
" That type Halibrand setup HAS NO SUSPENSION!! Wouldn't work well on the
" street. It's not really a transaxle, but a differential linked directly
" to the transmission with a slip coupling. The only way to make that
" work on the street would be to put the engine/trans/diff on a swinging
" subframe and spring that, like some go-carts do with chain drive.
in the second photo, it looks like the halibrand is about as long as
the engine. i don't think the c5 transaxle is much different.
the lack of suspension is a real downer. everything you mention would
sorta work, but not really well on the street.
" The
" C5 'vette setup can't be bolted directly to a bell housing, so it's out
" of the question for a mid engine.
it looks to me like the bolt pattern on the coupler is the same as the
odd pattern front-transmission 'vettes and other gms with the t56 have.
in any event, if it is a t56 as reported, a 'normal' front-transmission
case could be substituted, even an aftermarket warner one with standard
gm bellhousing pattern.
" Best setup for a mid engine is the
" Toro/Eldo/Riv axle. Just make the adapter! Those were used in Corvairs
" with 455s and such in the middle of the car, there may be an adapter for
" an SBC also. Not that it would help with an AMC engine.
for '66-up v8s and '72-up sixes, advance has a ring that'll do the
trick. it's intended to allow substitution of common gm th400 cases
for rarer amc ones in jeeps. they apparently bust frequently if/when
the front driveshaft comes adrift.
it's been used to mount stick bellhousings as well, but advance has a
custom amc engine / gm tranny bell too.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 20:58:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod // backwards six
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0610042057400.25888@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 4 Oct 2006, Jim Blair wrote:
> Anyone know if the early AMC 6 cyls were the same pattern as anything else?
That's a damn good question. I suspect it's just some old Nash
pattern and not much else.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 00:53:32 -0400
From: "Brien Tourville" <hh7x@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Rambler Hot Rod - con't
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <4524578C.1399.2BF998@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
" Current V-12 Ferraris', have a habit of lifting their front
" suspensions over small road irregularities at slower speeds and
" ending up in store fronts - European Racing - seen a few film
" clips featuring this 'Option'.
this could just as easily be a geometry problem with a suspension set
up
for high speed manners.
> with the V-12 & Transaxle in the rear - on a washboard pavement
the rear squats during the 'jounce' yanking the nose up - unloading
the front tires. The cars were mostly stock production items -
" Moms' 356 did this to me during some spirited back road rallying
" against a TR Spitfire - tyres finally bit as I headed into the
" Apple Orchard - didn't wrap the car up that afternoon.
trailing throttle oversteer, or perhaps swing axle tuck-under...
sounds to me like the car got ahead of an inexperienced driver.
> I was making a right onto a narrow roadway - washboard old
pavement again - front fuel tank was low - front suspension
unloaded after a few bumps > wasn't matching the pavement
contours - major brakes & wheels cocked,
the Michelins finally bit.
" I liked your original concept of an early Track Roadster with the
" Navarro 6 - I'm sure all that plumbing could be arranged for a
" high 'drool factor' eye candy without fogging up your goggles.
i must say the classic look has a certain appeal...
> ahh yeah .......... air 'n the hare ;)
______________________________________________________________________
__
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet
rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none
thought
=Bt=
milnersXcoupe
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 22:56:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe <jgray_55@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AMC intake manifolds.
To: AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Jgray_55@xxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20061005055636.51360.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Simple question..added to this. MY wife's new 401 was
assembled(not by me) with am aluminum Offy intake and
Mr Gasket/Felpro... paper type intake gaskets. There
is NO metal pan on the bottom of the manifold either .
PCV hole is wide open to the lifter valley. NOW..the
engine had the lifter valley line kit installed. Is
there a way to slot...etc..the tin valley pan gasket
so i can install it? The engine is NOT in the car yet.
I've heard it will suck oil like mad without the
valley pan gasket. Will the tin pan thats supposed to
be riveted to the intake being missing be a issue
also? Supposedly NO room for it with the lefter valley
line kit? Direct email would also be greatly
appreciated!! Thankyou,Joe
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 23:01:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe <jgray_55@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 343 and GOOD running 360 for sale
To: AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Jgray_55@xxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20061005060105.42980.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Have a 343 from a 1967 Ambassador. I'm sure it will
need rebuilt. Came with my Ambassador parts car.Heads
are off to see the bore. $150. Also GOOD running 360
from a 1987 Grand Wagoneer. Has a Edelbrock Performer
intake. No smoke..etc. $350. Have hoist to load into
your truck!! Located in central Illinois. Thankyou,Joe
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------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 23:04:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe <jgray_55@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 390 crank for sale / block also
To: AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Jgray_55@xxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20061005060427.54049.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Located in central Illinois.Fresh .010/.010 390 crank.
Sold my 69 Jav project as a roller.I'd like $350.
That's what i have in it. Have a 68-69 390 block.
Needs on sleeve(casting pit) or over bore...$100/bo.Is
rough bored to .035...finish hone to .040. Thanks,Joe
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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 15
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