AMC-List Digest, Vol 8, Issue 24
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 8, Issue 24
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- Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 12:00:01 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. It's been a while (Colin J Brodsky)
2. $200 Breadbox Convertible (Jerijan)
3. Andrews Rambler Fest (Brien Tourville)
4. Andrews Rambler Fest con't (Brien Tourville)
5. The Return of Brodsky (Brien Tourville)
6. Re: The Return of Brodsky (Colin J Brodsky)
7. Exhaust Manifold Gasket and AMC drivers (John Elle)
8. Exhaust Manifold Gasket and AMC drivers (John Elle)
9. Re: 200$ Bread Box (Mr. AMC)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 21:57:23 -0400
From: Colin J Brodsky <cbrodsky@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] It's been a while
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<OFF4D67D3F.E08C6D50-ON852571EA.00064AB5-852571EA.000ABF2E@xxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Wow, it seems like it has been quite a while since I have been on the
amc-list, so expect a long post here...
I took a look at the amxfiles archives and see a lot of folks that I
recognize, but the list traffic seems incredibly light these days.
Hopefully there wasn't a major fracturing of the AMC world as always seemed
to be a threat when I was moderating this list :-)
Anyway, my reason for coming back... I am at a major crossroads with what
to do with my AMCs - in particular, my first car ever, the yellow '73
Ambassador. (as still featured on Jim's AMC history page!). After
finishing up at UT-Austin back in 2001, I moved to NY to start working at
IBM. IBM shipped the '63 Rambler Classic for me - some may remember my
frantic efforts to get that car up and running so it would drive on and off
the car carrier :-) That project, retrofitting a later model 232-6 that I
rebuilt myself into a '63 classic turned into a major distraction and is
currently not running due to need for complete brake overhaul - I never
made it road legal in NY State, and it has probably driven less than 100
miles in 5 years after the engine rebuild. I will probably have some
questions about how to deal with the brake issues on it another day.
However, what has really gotten me to the point of realizing I have to do
something with my remnants of this hobby is the Ambassador. Back in around
1999-2000, when I lived in Austin, I pulled the engine out with the goal of
a mild rebuild to correct multiple oil leaks, valve job, etc. but nothing
major. Compression was always good, but smoked oil on startup (valve
seals) and dripped oil all over the place. At the time, I had grand ideas
of also redoing the engine bay. That all went by the wayside when the '63
showed up and turned out to be a major PITA project - completely stripped
and redid the engine bay on that one and think I had my fill of that kind
of work for a long time. Anyway, I found a trucking company through Eddie
Stakes that transported the car up to NY with the engine block in the
trunk, and amazingly, I was able to have the corporate movers pack an
unbelievable quantity of engine parts and transmissions in dish pack boxes.
So I still have everything for that car and a lot of other stuff I managed
to accumulate in junkyard runs with Fred Koos over the years. (wood grain
Javelin SST panels or 60's BW transmission with overdrive, anyone?) Def.
need to run an ebay auction one of these days.
For the past 5 years, the Ambassador has been sitting off the side of our
gravel driveway - we had a house built out in the woods in the middle of 19
acres. Lots of space - doesn't bother anyone, and thus very easy to not do
anything with it while getting sucked into my job, finishing things in the
house, etc... The engine parts are all over 1/4 of the garage. So, we are
in the process of doing some final landscaping (yes, 5 years later...)
which required moving the Ambassador for the first time since we moved in,
forcing me to confront some things here. I was dangerously close to just
calling a tow company to haul it away for free - I have felt terrible about
not doing anything with this car and thought I should just "cut and run"
figuring this car is a basket case at this point. But, I figured I'll push
off doing anything for now, inflated all the tires, towed it out and
repositioned it where it won't be in the way of our landscape work. In
doing this, I sat in it for the first time in literally years, and I
quickly realized there is no way I can junk this car. I have owned it
since 1995, and the first owner was my grandmother - my grandfather bought
it for her cash the day he retired and they toured the US in it a month
later. I drove it for years through undergrad and grad school. Beyond the
sentimental value, I also realized that despite my gross neglect, this car
may not be as far gone as I thought. It has been well shaded by trees, and
although there is some moss/mold here and there, and it really needs a
wash, the original daisy yellow paint is still as good as when I first got
it in 1995, which is pretty darn decent for original paint. Only the
slightest increase in rust around the rear quarters over years but really
no visible deterioration of note. The interior has also managed to stay
dry and clean and is a great example of the optional Camelot upgraded
interior. Even the vinyl top I redid 8 years ago continues to look great.
The car is also nicely optioned with power windows, cruise, rear defrost,
etc...
I fully recognize that I can't find the time to do a major restoration
project on this car as I would have years ago. However, working for 5
years has me in a much better position than grad school to throw some
money into this car and I think it's finally registered with me that it's
time to do something with this car or get rid of it before it sits another
5 years - one or the other. Additionally, my wife is more than supportive
of spending what it takes to not have a lawn ornament, but does want to see
this come to a conclusion one way or the other. So I need to make some
decisions.
Obviously first order of business is the engine. It's out of the car, and
completely disassembled, but I was fairly meticulous in this disassembly,
ziploc bagging and labeling bolts as I went along. I am sure every part is
in my garage. What I am unsure of these days is whether the smarter route
is to take it in to a local rebuilder, who may do 1-2 AMC/jeep V8s a year,
or just order a remanufactured engine. I am already seeing that the
proliferation of the web in the past few years has put a lot more AMC
resources out there. The engineer in me tells me that a factory line
running loads of AMC engines a year is going to ultimately be more familiar
with them and more consistent, and maybe more cost-effective. But I doubt
I can even turn my current engine in as a core. And with only ~99K miles
when I pulled it, I'm not even sure it needs anything beyond honing on the
cylinders - my guess is it could be at the lower end of the rebuild cost
spectrum, especially if I don't need new pistons. What is the thinking
these days on rebuild vs. reman. for AMCs? I'm not looking to do anything
elaborate - just get back to a solid drip-free cleaner running 360 V8.
Maybe finally put on that Edelbrock performer intake/carb combo I've had
for the past 8 years. And on the installation, what is a ballpark
expectation for what that would run given the circumstances for a turnkey
job at an engine shop? Keep in mind we are in NY now... things aren't as
cheap as South Texas :-(
Basically I feel that if I can get a new/rebuilt engine in the car for $3K
or less, it's a no-brainer at this point if it means I can get the car back
to life. Irrational for a 4-door, but that's what happens with first
cars... I expect the brakes will need a lot of work, but I'm guessing the
parts continue to be reasonably good availability for these cars, and I can
find the time for that while an engine is built/replaced. Beyond that, not
sure how far I'd want to go with paint/body - can't see putting much beyond
$5-7K into a 4-door but I'm interested in seeing how far that could take
it. The exterior has a mildly dented driver's door and front fender, and
the rear quarters will someday perforate at the bottom, bumper is slightly
misaligned in the back, and I wouldn't mind getting the engine bay redone.
But all that gets into big $$$ which is harder and harder to justify on
this car vs. cleaning it up enough to enjoy driving it again. Beyond those
issues, the body is generally very straight and clean and with the good
interior, I would still enjoy the car a lot even without all of that done -
just to get it running and back on the road would be very satisfying.
Wow, what a post... would be interested in people's thoughts on engine
approach as well as how you would plan a budget for something of the issues
outlined above. I'll be around here a lot in the coming weeks - going to
talk to some shops in the Poughkeepsie area as well, and if anyone is from
this part of NY, would definitely like to hear some recommendations.
Good to be back,
Colin
PS - anyone still in touch with Fred Koos? I lost contact with him over
the years and didn't see him posting anymore.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:02:35 -0400
From: "Jerijan" <jerijan@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] $200 Breadbox Convertible
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <005a01c6d86b$033827f0$640fa8c0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
For all those interested, that Breadbox convertible is in VERMONT...
EAST COAST (well, more or less)..
Four Hours North of New York City,
47 minutes East of Albany, NY
9 Minutes from Massachusetts Bordor
9 Minutes from NewYork Bordor
This is SOUTH WESTERN VERMONT.
Bennington to be exact.
802 area code
Phone Cell...802 310 9639
(*Why didn't anyone look up the Area Code?)
Jerijan
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:16:39 -0400
From: "Brien Tourville" <hh7x@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Andrews Rambler Fest
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <4509D4C7.9640.20E62F0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
as my address says, i'm in bradford ma; that's part of haverhill, on
the nh border ~15 mi from the coast.
______________________________________________________________________
__
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet
rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none
thought
=== ===
can't use either Andrew - but since you're that close
to the Ocean, a half dozen Lobsters on Ice would suffice @ ! ;)
Brien Tourville
NEW YORK
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:26:32 -0400
From: "Brien Tourville" <hh7x@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Andrews Rambler Fest con't
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <4509D718.26310.2176EF6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] help! have to move my cars
Your killing me here!
I want the 65. Anyone able to move it this way????
I'm very serious. Sounds like exactly the body I've been looking for
to
clone the Kraft Rambler. If not, just to save it would do for now.
Send me
the pics. Yeah, I can't even think about coming and getting it, but
if
anyone is hauling this way I'd really like to here from you! -- Mark
Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net Morgantown, WV
=== ===
Staahup ~~! you sound like me over that
Black loaf of Bread Rambler Convertible for
$200.00
It's on the East Coast - I'm pacing the floor &
staring at the ceiling for 'Divine Intervention' !
I can't get to it anytime soon to bring it down
to New York!
milnersXcoupe
NEW YORK
From: Jerijan Baldwin <jerijan@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Greetings AMC Listers...
I have an Offering for anyone with Courage and Room...and can Weld.
1962 Rambler 400 Convertible.
Town coming down on me, I'm unable to fight them (*Post Surgery by
two
weeks, next surgery Monday Next*)...
So, anyone interested in Saving this, Give me a CALL 802 310 9639
Cell so we
can discuss 'adoption' terms. I need to recover some of the gold
I've got
into it, but $200 for the car should induce someone to lust for a
Breadbox
Convertible.
Rust in Front Chassis Rails, Floors need help. Original Black Paint.
New
Top NOT installed but goes. New Grille. Some additional parts as
well.
DOES NOT RUN, but does crank. (Not Seized).
Please, someone, Give this Baby a well deserved Home.
It is more than I can handle right now, and I'm unlikely to be
'fixed' (MY
body) anytime soon, if ever, so.....
Thanks,
Jerijan
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:49:05 -0400
From: "Brien Tourville" <hh7x@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] The Return of Brodsky
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <4509DC61.26245.22C13D4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
On September 14, 2006 Colin Brodsky wrote:
> Wow, what a post... would be interested in people's thoughts on engine
> approach as well as how you would plan a budget for something of the issues
> outlined above. I'll be around here a lot in the coming weeks - going to
> talk to some shops in the Poughkeepsie area as well, and if anyone is from
> this part of NY, would definitely like to hear some recommendations.
>
> Good to be back,
>
> Colin
>
Hi Colin -
I'm here in New Paltz, across the River from your local -
Poughkeepsie in the 1970s' was the place to go for Machine Shops -
Jocko's was then a leader in rebuilding - another shop over next
to Joes' Nite Club had a Dyno Room.
With Racing moved to this side of the River - Middletown NY is the
place I'd look for an engine rebuilder - Interstate Rte. 84east to
Middletown - Rte. 17 toward Monticello - first Rte. 211 exit on right
- off ramp turn Left -at the very least you want a shop that has
TORQUE PLATES for an AMC / JEEP 360.
Having a Torque Plate Hone done, along with fresh rings , polish the
crank journals & fresh bearings / new timing chain & gear set / fresh
engine seals would be the way to go.
Call a few Middletown Speed Shops - ask them for a recommendation
on a JEEP V8 engine rebuilder - we've plenty of Jeepers in the
Valley - see who has a Dyno Room during the conversation.
Your heads will need new valve seals at minimum - lapping in the
valves might be done gratis at a local High School that runs a Auto
Mechanix program - most do - .
Brien Tourville
NEW YORK
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 23:35:03 -0400
From: Colin J Brodsky <cbrodsky@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] The Return of Brodsky
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<OF6BDB2A3F.88F88A98-ON852571EA.0012EDED-852571EA.0013B043@xxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Hi Colin -
>
> I'm here in New Paltz, across the River from your local -
>
> With Racing moved to this side of the River - Middletown NY is the
> place I'd look for an engine rebuilder - Interstate Rte. 84east to
> Middletown - Rte. 17 toward Monticello - first Rte. 211 exit on right
> - off ramp turn Left -at the very least you want a shop that has
> TORQUE PLATES for an AMC / JEEP 360.
>
> Brien Tourville
> NEW YORK
Small world - we go hiking out in the mountains behind New Paltz
frequently! Great advice on Middletown - will check that out - easy to
miss them in our local phone books. Looking around online, I'm seeing a
ton of places advertising remanufactured 360 long blocks in the $1500-$1700
range. I have seen some engine jobs go way beyond that, but assuming I can
reuse my pistons and the engine is generally OK, I'm hoping I would be able
to stay a bit below that. As long as the place has good experience, seems
like the way to go - like the idea of keeping the original engine in it.
-Colin
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 20:36:35 -0700
From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Exhaust Manifold Gasket and AMC drivers
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <000001c6d878$258bec80$10dd0d82@john1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I think I missed something here on the exhaust manifold gasket. I assume
this is for the I-6. And I unnerstand the factory used a milling process
on the fresh cast iron exhaust manifold so it could be installed with
out a gasket.
However, when I go to the parts counter and ask for a top line gasket
set I get an intake and exhaust gasket stapled together. The cheap
gasket sets do not include the exhaust gasket. Logic says to me that if
I did not need the gasket, it would not be available. As I have worked
on a number of I-6 engines I have found that the exhaust manifold warps
like mad. Up to an including the point where the end manifold bolts are
broken right off of the engine and when removed the manifold will not go
over the the replaced end bolts with out woggling out the holes with a
rat tail file.
Also my 'speriance says that the intake/exhaust manifold bolts on an I-6
engine will work themselves loose over time. It seems to me that
somewhere along the line some one with more experience than I have has
identified a problem and was in the position to identify a solution. Use
a gasket! And then went ahead and packaged the gasket set in such a way
that I got a gasket for the exhaust manifold. Unless of course I was too
cheap to buy the better set and went ahead with pig headed determination
to install the intake and exhaust with out the exhaust manifold gasket.
I HATE exhaust manifold leak noises.
To me it is a no brainer, buy the good intake/exhaust manifold gasket
set, woggle out the end holes on the exhaust manifold so it will fit
over the studs and tighten everything down tightly. That has worked for
me for more years than I care to count. But to each their own.
As far as AMC for daily drivers, I gottem. I also have a Saturn and a
Chrysler Town and Country.
Their ain't no comparison folks. As nice as my Spirit is for cross
country traveling either of the other two cars get better gasoline
mileage, the A/C works better, they travel quieter so I can hear the
radio. The seats are more comfortable, the cruise control works better
and many other basic options that are not available on my Spirit make
traveling that much more enjoyable. Yupper. I have a deep respect for
the versatility and pleasure my AMC cars have brought me and believe me
they are nice. But the newer technology is far better and more
enjoyable. I had planned on restoring my Hornet Wagon and keeping it,
but to be honest, my T&C is a far better vehicle so if I do keep the
wagon, it will be to register it with the movie companies and let it
bring me some income. My go fast street racer Javelin will always have a
home with me but the Spirits day's are numbered now, I can see it
coming. I put a lot of work in the car to keep it as a daily driver but
to be honest. The Saturn has it beat any way you look at it.
For what it is worth
John.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 20:37:19 -0700
From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Exhaust Manifold Gasket and AMC drivers
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <000501c6d878$42df6690$10dd0d82@john1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I think I missed something here on the exhaust manifold gasket. I assume
this is for the I-6. And I unnerstand the factory used a milling process
on the fresh cast iron exhaust manifold so it could be installed with
out a gasket.
However, when I go to the parts counter and ask for a top line gasket
set I get an intake and exhaust gasket stapled together. The cheap
gasket sets do not include the exhaust gasket. Logic says to me that if
I did not need the gasket, it would not be available. As I have worked
on a number of I-6 engines I have found that the exhaust manifold warps
like mad. Up to an including the point where the end manifold bolts are
broken right off of the engine and when removed the manifold will not go
over the the replaced end bolts with out woggling out the holes with a
rat tail file.
Also my 'speriance says that the intake/exhaust manifold bolts on an I-6
engine will work themselves loose over time. It seems to me that
somewhere along the line some one with more experience than I have has
identified a problem and was in the position to identify a solution. Use
a gasket! And then went ahead and packaged the gasket set in such a way
that I got a gasket for the exhaust manifold. Unless of course I was too
cheap to buy the better set and went ahead with pig headed determination
to install the intake and exhaust with out the exhaust manifold gasket.
I HATE exhaust manifold leak noises.
To me it is a no brainer, buy the good intake/exhaust manifold gasket
set, woggle out the end holes on the exhaust manifold so it will fit
over the studs and tighten everything down tightly. That has worked for
me for more years than I care to count. But to each their own.
As far as AMC for daily drivers, I gottem. I also have a Saturn and a
Chrysler Town and Country.
Their ain't no comparison folks. As nice as my Spirit is for cross
country traveling either of the other two cars get better gasoline
mileage, the A/C works better, they travel quieter so I can hear the
radio. The seats are more comfortable, the cruise control works better
and many other basic options that are not available on my Spirit make
traveling that much more enjoyable. Yupper. I have a deep respect for
the versatility and pleasure my AMC cars have brought me and believe me
they are nice. But the newer technology is far better and more
enjoyable. I had planned on restoring my Hornet Wagon and keeping it,
but to be honest, my T&C is a far better vehicle so if I do keep the
wagon, it will be to register it with the movie companies and let it
bring me some income. My go fast street racer Javelin will always have a
home with me but the Spirits day's are numbered now, I can see it
coming. I put a lot of work in the car to keep it as a daily driver but
to be honest. The Saturn has it beat any way you look at it.
For what it is worth
John.
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2006 03:22:38 -0400
From: AMC74Hornet@xxxxxxxxx (Mr. AMC)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 200$ Bread Box
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <7163-450A54BE-934@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Why should we have to look up the area code? If you want to sell it/save
it tell us where it is!!!!!!!! and don't waste our time a few more words
in your post couldn't have caused you a problem. I have said this for
years if you are selling a car or anything say where you are. Don't
waste my time looking up area codes to find out you are a couple of
thousand miles away and out of reality for me to pick the item up or
have it shipped at a reasonable price.
"Doc"
4 miles north of N.Y. City 1 mile off Rt. 87. 2 1/2 hours from
Bennington Vermont as my Hornet knows.
------------------------------
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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 8, Issue 24
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