AMC-List Digest, Vol 5, Issue 37
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 5, Issue 37
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- Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:57:05 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: rear end wanted (Sandwich Maker)
2. Re: Report from the desert (Jim Blair)
3. Re: my 62 classic project (Jim Blair)
4. Re: rear end wanted (msproviero@xxxxxxxxxxx)
5. Re: rear end wanted (msproviero@xxxxxxxxxxx)
6. 4 on the tree (Michael Bailey)
7. Re: 4 on the tree (Sandwich Maker)
8. Seeing through things and seeing things through (Mahoney, John)
9. Re: Report from the desert (Ken Ames)
10. car for sale, auto trans fluid question
(house-of-travel@xxxxxxxxxx)
11. Re: car for sale, auto trans fluid question (JohnBherna@xxxxxxx)
12. Re: Gone Fishing -CLOSED THREAD!
(francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
13. 4 on the tree (francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 12:54:40 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rear end wanted
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200606161654.k5GGseK20713@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: msproviero@xxxxxxxxxxx
"
" > another possibility if you're not worried about originality, is a
" > '73-6 dart v8/disk 8.25" rear. width is very close to the american,
" > disk brake darts have a 4.5" bolt circle [lh thd one side though], and
" > the 8.25 was considered strong enough for 318s.
" _______________________________________________
"
" Or a Ford 8.8 from an Exploder. 5x4.5, discs, and a parking brake. Width is narrower then a stock XJ rear, so that probably puts it at or inside a WT CJ, but maybe not as narrow as a NT.
track on late-model jeeps is 60.7" or so, and that's with deep-offset
wheels. the exploder is probably 60". americans are 55.5"... darts
are 55.6".
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:07:19 -0700
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Report from the desert
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F189F616FBBEDB257111F96AC830@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Wow! Sounds like you're having some of the fun I had before! (only mine was
in Seattle and BC. I had one sell the house I was living in and I got 24
hours notice to move from some unsavory wanna-be bikers sent by Andy Z*** of
Chilliwack. I lost several convertibles and other parts cars over that)
The run on and sudden jamming tells me the cam probably walked and bound
up on the dist drive or dropped behind the timing cover. (smacking my head)
Oh! Duh! Bent connecting rod that twisted and stopped the motor! (been
there, done that with a 232) It's possible it dropped a valve too, but the
backfire that wouldn't go away is usually a bent rod tipoff. (pushrod or
connecting rod) Con rods happen often from over revving or hydraulicing
(common in Jeeps that try to pass UNDER the waves. <G>)
I would do a 4.0L cam button and timing cover on the replacement engine
so cam walk doesn't happen in the future though.
From: Michael Bailey <route66rambler@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Report from the desert
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<20060614184705.3974.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hi, been a while, thought I'd check in. The 258 engine seized
on my 74 Gremlin, Molly last night. It's had a good miss going
on for a while now, with an inconsistent backfire, and no
amount of tuning would take it out. Last night I pulled up to a
store, and when I shut her off, there was just a split second of
dieseling-like noise, and that has never happened before. When
I tried to start her after coming out, it acted like the starter
was drawing too much current(click click). After a little
checking, it became apparent that the motor is frozen. Well,
Phoenix in June, maybe "frozen" isn't the right word. At any
rate, I'm sure that I know exactly what's wrong. I just thought
it would be interesting to see what some of the guesses from
list members would be BEFORE I take it apart.
(snip)
See ya, gotta go load the truck(or was that pull a drivetrain?).
mike
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 10:09:45 -0700
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] my 62 classic project
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F231A0974C369BEC9B4AF07AC830@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
They may have mixed up a shipment that was supposed to go to OZ. <G> (drill
out the other side and voila!)
From: "Glenn Ford" <gcmford@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] my 62 classic project
To: "mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx" <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <000701c68fe9$945fb510$6501a8c0@ARCNSPARKNB>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Corvairs had left front wheel-driven speedo throught the
spindle. I don't
think
strength of spindle would be affected by drilling out for cable,
if
practical in this
case, but GM boo-boo'd and had after-market batches of cables
made up
(I found out years later) that were made with an opposite twist
in the
cable.
I had one of those, and it totalled the casing when it unwound
after about
100 miles.
It snagged in the elbow by the wheel. I suspect there is an
easier and
better way,
probably with electronics, as Mark suggests.
Glenn Ford
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:22:51 +0000
From: msproviero@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rear end wanted
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<061620061722.10388.4492E8EB000CC928000028942207020853019D0A0790019D9F9C03@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
Ranger 8.8's are out there in a 58" and 5x4.5 version. I'm not familiar, so would a 1.25" reduction per side result in suspension interference on those cars? If it did, a spacer or wheels with the appropriate backspacing would correct the issue.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
> " From: msproviero@xxxxxxxxxxx
> "
> " > another possibility if you're not worried about originality, is a
> " > '73-6 dart v8/disk 8.25" rear. width is very close to the american,
> " > disk brake darts have a 4.5" bolt circle [lh thd one side though], and
> " > the 8.25 was considered strong enough for 318s.
> " _______________________________________________
> "
> " Or a Ford 8.8 from an Exploder. 5x4.5, discs, and a parking brake. Width is
> narrower then a stock XJ rear, so that probably puts it at or inside a WT CJ,
> but maybe not as narrow as a NT.
>
> track on late-model jeeps is 60.7" or so, and that's with deep-offset
> wheels. the exploder is probably 60". americans are 55.5"... darts
> are 55.6".
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Andrew Hay the genius nature
> internet rambler is to see what all have seen
> adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 17:36:36 +0000
From: msproviero@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rear end wanted
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<061620061736.27906.4492EC2400033F1E00006D022206424413019D0A0790019D9F9C03@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
Thinking in the wrong direction. (D'oh). I meant 1.25" extension and a quarter panel interference.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: msproviero@xxxxxxxxxxx
> Ranger 8.8's are out there in a 58" and 5x4.5 version. I'm not familiar, so
> would a 1.25" reduction per side result in suspension interference on those
> cars? If it did, a spacer or wheels with the appropriate backspacing would
> correct the issue.
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
>
> > " From: msproviero@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > "
> > " > another possibility if you're not worried about originality, is a
> > " > '73-6 dart v8/disk 8.25" rear. width is very close to the american,
> > " > disk brake darts have a 4.5" bolt circle [lh thd one side though], and
> > " > the 8.25 was considered strong enough for 318s.
> > " _______________________________________________
> > "
> > " Or a Ford 8.8 from an Exploder. 5x4.5, discs, and a parking brake. Width is
> > narrower then a stock XJ rear, so that probably puts it at or inside a WT CJ,
> > but maybe not as narrow as a NT.
> >
> > track on late-model jeeps is 60.7" or so, and that's with deep-offset
> > wheels. the exploder is probably 60". americans are 55.5"... darts
> > are 55.6".
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > Andrew Hay the genius nature
> > internet rambler is to see what all have seen
> > adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
> > _______________________________________________
> > AMC-List mailing list
> > AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
> >
> > or go to http://www.amc-list.com
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:42:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Bailey <route66rambler@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 4 on the tree
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060616184226.68411.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Back in the 70's when I was 16, I drove a Mercedes
taxi for awhile that had a four on the tree shifter.
The body style was one of those ones with the small
fins like a '59 Rambler Ambassador. I don't remember
how reverse was set up on that car.
mike
__________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:48:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 4 on the tree
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200606161948.k5GJmXl21889@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: Michael Bailey <route66rambler@xxxxxxxxx>
"
" Back in the 70's when I was 16, I drove a Mercedes
" taxi for awhile that had a four on the tree shifter.
" The body style was one of those ones with the small
" fins like a '59 Rambler Ambassador. I don't remember
" how reverse was set up on that car.
i remember them well! my uncle had a '62-ish 220 and my grandmother
a '59 190, which i got to drive a bit after she died as my brother
inherited it. iirc rev was towards you and down. it was definitely
on the tree.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 16:20:41 -0400
From: "Mahoney, John" <jmahoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Seeing through things and seeing things through
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<E8DF38ACFC17F94998DE284C5CE4582A02202BD3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
and btw i recall when the 472 came out, a caddy engineer said 'there
was room for 600 cubic inches'...
<<
...and it wouldn't involve see-through cylinder walls like the 304 had!
Huh? What? He's crazy! He really lost it. Which 304 does he mean?
Whoa. Simmer down. It actually was 304.5 and it wasn't an AMC mill.
In naturally aspirated 12.0:1 tune, it made mincemeat of its origins.
With dual blowers, it blew away just about anything on your old salt.
It, like that first AMX drawing I recently ("If a tree fell...") noted, dated to 1951; and, to give us even more fun when remembering, it began life as a 232.
He did it again! Gone off the deep end. He's yanking our AMC chain.
No, I'm pulling a switcheroo. Remember your fourth quarter AMC game?
Remember who already had the small-displacement V-8 that Nash didn't?
An engine that wouldn't have been quite so heavy a haul as Packard's?
Yes, history haters, the OHV 232 that became the 259 and the 289 that had beat GM and Ford and Chrysler and Hudson and Nash to the start of America's 1950s affordable-performance V-8 market madness, had been developed by the last large independent not to become a part of American Motors. From its 120-hp birth
http://seattlesdc.hypermart.net/Odd2.JPG
http://seattlesdc.hypermart.net/Odd3.JPG
to 575-hp (or was it 635-hp?) death, it was a strong and stout little engine that could. Its certified desert drive (to 196.62 mph in '63) proved that fact. It drove the flats faster (at 211.929 in '96) to prove that fact again.
http://www.theavanti.com/JimLange.html
It drove the first -real- muscle car before GM did. GOT-cha!
Almost one decade before GTO gotcha into a mood for musclin'.
Before Romney's Rambler Rebelled on a racy run of four doors.
But that's another OT story the AMC List never got to ignore.
Would there have been a craze for "tri-five" Ramblers if they'd been marketed with a cheapo V-8? Would there have been "Farina" hot rods cruising around car culture for the past 50-plus years if they'd been built with eight-hole 232s? Would an AMX have been the Z-car to an Avanti that was the G-coupe and the GT-R super coupe that an almost-AMC was still building today? Would the Skyline of American motors look any different than it does in 2006 --- as the sun seems to slowly set over Motown?
"When the day is done of revel and romp and race", would AMC still ride "into the red horizon of a Wyoming twilight?"
http://www.charleswelty.com/images/jordan_ad.jpg
Or would that AMC be just another once brilliant, but now faded American dream?
http://www.tocmp.com/pix/Studebaker/Maxbarn/1963%20Avanti%20Ad-01.jpg
Every day the sun sets on someone, but every night, some stars shine somewhere,
>>
this was a step down; since the 462 [and ancestor 430] was built only
for lincoln, they could afford to be more particular about it. i read
in the lcoc club newsletter that every one of these engines was run
for 2h on a dyno, including 30m at full throttle, prior to assembly
line installation. certainly it is true if anecdotal that they are
famous for going 250 000 miles without needing overhaul.
yet some of the best, brightest (or just the biggest...), sometimes slip away,
http://www.adclassix.com/images/55lincolnmarkII.jpg
and sometimes what we realize was lost when that happens really can't be seen.
http://www.prn.ee/ajuvant/reklaam/1950/linc-cont-mark2-56.jpg
It's amazing that almost ten years have passed since my eyes saw an AMC List and almost seven years have passed since Detroit's "Eyes on Design" saw the best Teague design on display: if time doesn't fly, it does roll along, faster and faster with each passing year. I have typed more words here than in a concours catalogue raisonee, yet there's still much more about AMC to be written, much more about AMC to be read, much more from AMC to feast the eyes on, and, since none of Dick's designs appeared on that year's poster
http://www.eyeson.org/html/poster99.html
(although both cars on it were designed by his good friend who, the last time I saw him before he died, joked: "You can call this -my- Pacer!" while he stood beside his slightly shovel-nosed one-off Auburn painted in the signature AMC shade of basic [non-metallic] beige), there are still more suns and stars to see in the future life of dead American Motors.
http://www.eyeson.org/html/evn_eod_evn.htm
If I see something interesting this weekend, I'll write something about it next week. After that, my ten-year AMC List enlistment will be over and my vow to "give" something every day I "take" something will be ancient history.
I may read; I may write; I may not. You see what happens with history.
It's like a sunset. Sometimes moonlight, sometimes the sky goes black.
Turn on your high beams. You must drive your AMC safely into tomorrow.
Eyes will be on you.
Shine!
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:22:30 -0600
From: Ken Ames <ameskg@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Report from the desert
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1150503750.44934b46db157@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
My SX4 did something similar to me after darts one night.
Turned the key, heard the starter move, then nothing. Couldn't turn the engine
by hand either. Boosting didn't help. Being an automatic I couldn't unlock the
starter by just pushing the car back and forth so I had to loosened the starter,
heard the gear retract, and tightened it up again. Started fine and didn't do
that again for the next 5 or so years I drove it.
Ken
Quoting Michael Bailey <route66rambler@xxxxxxxxx>:
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006
> From: eddie walker <moparedwalker@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [AMC-List] report from the desert
>
> ...Sure sounds like a timing chain broke....
>
> -----> This situation DOES sound like a timing chain
> issue, maybe even a valve strike on a piston. I
> pulled the drivetrain(the only real way to get at
> either the engine or trans on these pre-77 Gremlins).
> After removing the belts, the water pump turned
> freely. Engine still wouldn't rotate. Hmmm. Checked
> the alternator, rotates freely. Engine still wouldnt'
> rotate. Hmmm. No antifreeze in oil. No oil in
> antifreeze. When I pulled the starter, it was VERY
> difficult to remove. As I finally pulled it free, I
> detected a slight rotation of the crank. HMMM? Yes,
> the starter itself had frozen, with the drive gear in
> the extended position. Upon further inspection, it
> appears that one of the magnets on the casing has come
> loose and jammed, producing a lot of heat, as there is
> severe bearing failure on both ends of the starter
> shaft. The starter case is even ovalized
> slightly(about .040 across the diameter). NOW the
> engine rotates just fine. Pulled the valve cover and
> had a look at the rockers while rotating it. Checked
> the distributor, everything seems to still be in time.
> Incredibly, no damage to the teeth on the flexplate.
> So I could just call it one very difficult and
> time-consuming starter replacement. But the miss I
> mentioned still concerns me, and there is quite a
> pronounced tick(almost a knock) coming from the lifter
> galley at #3 cylinder. So I have lined up Molly's
> 258, the Jeep 258, and the extra '76 232 side by side.
> Last night I ordered a Comp Cams towing cam and
> lifters, a Cloyes true-roller timing set, new hardened
> pushrods, guide plates, and scored a set of steel
> hydraulic roller rockers off of a friend. Once I have
> all the heads off I'll make a decision on replacement.
> There's a place in Phoenix called Bill's Cylinder
> Heads that my Dad and I have used for over 30 years
> that does excellent work and offers rebuilt AMC I-6
> heads for 99$. The parts should be in by Saturday, so
> with any luck Project Mollyfloggin' should be up by
> Monday, and Molly can go back to irritating the clones
> in traffic. Oh, yeah, after all the cam stuff and
> associated doo dads like thermostat housing,
> thermostat and various gaskets and seals, I forgot to
> buy a starter. What a moron.
> mike
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> _______________________________________________
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> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:02:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: "house-of-travel@xxxxxxxxxx" <house-of-travel@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] car for sale, auto trans fluid question
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060617020250.5607F8B312@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Greetings listers,
Been going by the following AMC for sale for the last 4 weeks and decided to stop. It is not mine and I hope someone can save her.
Year: Not sure, 67 or 68 is my guess
Model: AMC Rebel 550
# of doors: 2
Color: brown
Engine: 232 6 cyl
Trans: Auto
Condition: Rusty especially front fenders, but still restorable
Comments: Not sure if it runs, not mine !!!
Location: 8 miles south of Sturgeon Bay Wis, 32 miles North of Green Bay on HY 57.
Price: Not sure
Contact: Rocky, 920 824 5353.
What trans fluid do I use in a 64 232 Automatic Rambler? Can fin the previous bottle. Thanks Bob
Bargain Bob Petersen
AMC Car Collector
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------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2006 22:49:52 EDT
From: JohnBherna@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] car for sale, auto trans fluid question
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <4bf.1f82694.31c4c7d0@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
If the car is parted, I need both of the left door handles and all window
cranks. Please let me know if they become available.
Thanks,
John
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:40:16 -0000
From: <francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Gone Fishing -CLOSED THREAD!
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<8B4C911BEBA5E24888E353FF362B9E7702E65FAA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
THIS THREAD IS CLOSED -- PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO IT!
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2006 03:56:52 -0000
From: <francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 4 on the tree
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<8B4C911BEBA5E24888E353FF362B9E7702E65FAC@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
A friend of mine still has a 61 Mercedes with four on the tree. It's
just like a four on the floor, only sideways! Reverse is toward the dash
and down so you don't try to shift into fifth, IIRC. First is pluu
toward wheel and up, second down, then no pressure on stalk and up is
third, down fourth. You have to push toward the dash to get reverse.
-------------------
Date: Friday, June 16, 2006 01:42 PM
From: Michael Bailey <route66rambler@xxxxxxxxx>
Back in the 70's when I was 16, I drove a Mercedes
taxi for awhile that had a four on the tree shifter.
The body style was one of those ones with the small
fins like a '59 Rambler Ambassador. I don't remember
how reverse was set up on that car.
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
AMC-List mailing list
AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 5, Issue 37
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