AMC-List Digest, Vol 3, Issue 31

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Today's Topics:

   1. Favorite movie (JSack390@xxxxxxx)
   2.  62 rambler classic (farna@xxxxxxx)
   3. Rock Auto has --> factory parts catalog reprints!? (Tom Jennings)
   4. Ambo convert, RHD (russ hathaway)
   5. Cookie Cutter Cars (Mr. AMC)
   6. Re: Rock Auto has --> factory parts catalog  reprints!?
      (Matt Haas)
   7. Re: 62 rambler classic (Matt Haas)
   8. hi guy's and doll's..fine tune a 390 with a holley 950	t.b.
      fuel injrction system!! (Edwin Atwood)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 10:03:38 EDT
From: JSack390@xxxxxxx
Subject: [AMC-List] Favorite movie
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <337.2a006a1.3172573a@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

My favorite movie, is favorite due to plot...humor...romance..etc
The fact that the guy has a chase scene driving a RAMBLER is besides the 
point.
THE MOVIE?    "12:01"
Anybody and everybody needs to buy, find or rent this one...............
Jeff   The Colorado AMC CLUB


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 14:07:10 +0000
From: farna@xxxxxxx
Subject: [AMC-List]  62 rambler classic
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx (AMC-List)
Cc: das24rules@xxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<041520061407.2643.4440FE0E00030FE100000A5321612436460E029D0E00@xxxxxxx>
	

The Panhard bar should be near parallel to the axle when the car is loaded. It will be slightly higher on the body end when the car has a light load. but not much. ALL panhard rods will move the car slightly from side to side with suspension movement, but less than 1" left and right through the full suspension travel. If you can FEEL the movement you have other problems -- loose mounts, worn bushings in the ends, worn shocks, and/or worn springs. 

Early 60s Ramblers were still sprung rather softly due to road conditions back then -- still few Interstates. You will need new springs about 15-20% stiffer than stock to attain a modern car ride -- front and rear. You will find this to be MUCH cheaper and easier to install than coil over shocks. Go to www.coilsprings.com and they will make new springs at the desired rate. The new ones will be progressive rate springs also -- they get stiffer as they compress. This provides MUCH improved handling and ride. 

The stock shock locations aren't strong enough for coil over shocks. They are also "bayonet" (stud) ends on top. All coil overs I've seen are "eye" end. It would be easy enough to make a steel bracket for the shock end and bolt it where the bracing in the body IS strong enough -- in the coil spring pocket. You would really need to do the same for the front. Make a bracket that sits in the upper spring pocket. On the Classic the spring mount is straight above the spring on top of a screw off tube -- it's a very different trunnion than the American/Javelin. Rather than modify the original I'd get a piece of thin wall tubing the right size and have threaded to match. Then make a bracket for the shock on hte upper end of the tubing. 

To mount a four or five speed you will have to go to an open driveshaft. This will require either a ladder bar or four link setup. Ladder bars are easiest, but the four link will ride a little better. 

What I think is a better solution is "truck arms". These are basically long ladder bars angled in toward the driveshaft. Check this out at http://www.hotrodstohell.net/truckarm/truckarm_index.htm. Take a look at the "G-Body" kit. This  is closest to what I'd do with a 58-66 big Rambler. It keeps the springs in the stock location (you'll need the stiffer rear springs). The spring seats can be removed from the original axle and bolted to any other axle with a fine thread 3/8" bolt in the tube, just like stock. I did this when using ladder bars on a 63 Classic. My bars were to short (24"), and caused it to bounce a lot on rough roads. I wouldn't use less than a 36" ladder bar now, and the longer the better. You can make your own bars and mount them to the trans crossmember, but you'll have to make solid mounts to replace the rubber crossmember mounts. Worn out rubbr crossmemebr mounts will also greatly affect your ride now. Galvin's (www.ramblerparts.com) has repro rubber mount!
 s. With
 the torque tube they are needed, it's easy to fab a solid mount if you're changing to another rear suspension type. While your on the truck arms site, look at the "Shoebox" page. That gives a much niver view of how the system is installed. Most of the kits mount the springs forward on the arms, not desireable with the early Ramblers though. Also check out www.hotrodders.com/forum/home-made-truck-arm-suspension-27086-2.html. This is where someone installed the arms from an actual early 60s Chevy truck in their car. 

Yes, there is a lot of frame width difference between the American and Classic! It doesn't look like it, but the rails on the American are only 40" apart on the inside and the Classic rails are just over 47" apart. A later big car axle is only a couple inches wider than the Classic axle and has the four link setup. You can remove the four link from a later big car and mount it in the Classic with a little work. If you have a model 20 (Classic V-8) now, you can even narrow the axle housing to fit the axles out of the 62 Model 20 housing. 

--
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Independent 
Magazine" (AIM)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html
(free download available!)

original message ------------------------------

Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:55:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: d stohler <das24rules@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 62 rambler classic

i have a 62 rambler classic custom 2 door. it is in stock condition now 
with rebuilt 196 and 3 spd manual. has the coil rear suspensin. my 
panhard bar is not paralell with the axle like it should be so it throws 
the rear end from side to side when over 40 mph. i am looking at getting 
a triangulated 4 link. i am wanting to go with a coil over shock 
package front and rear. does anyone know if the stock shock locations are 
strong enough on these bodied cars to suport a coil over set up? also, if 
any one has read the newest car craft, they built their 67 american 
exactly as i want my 62 classic. can anyone tell me if there is alot of 
difference in the fraim width from the 67 american and a 62 classic? i 
want either a 304 or a 360 in it and a 4 spd manual. any help would be 
great. i want to dive into it when i get back from iraq in a few months. 
thank you for any  help.


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 10:37:53 -0700
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Rock Auto has --> factory parts catalog reprints!?
To: amc-list <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <1145122672.25467.23.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

Yowza -- I had no idea -- poking around, finally getting the right rear
brake wheel cyls, there's a section on www.rockauto.com for
73/gremlin/232/ for literature. BISHKO #3949, 1800+ pages, description
sure sounds like the actual factory parts catalog. $84; it's a lot of
paper and likely not a best-seller.

I did not check other years.



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 10:49:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: russ hathaway <russh97309@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Ambo convert, RHD
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060415174930.51274.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

A guy named Marc just Emailed me from overseas
(Germany, I think) and was asking about the
desirability of a right hand drive 1967 Ambassador
convert. Any drop top Ambo waould be desirable, the
RHD could be little more sought after just for the wow
factor. He can be reached at plastus@xxxxxxxx and his
name is Marc.
He sent two pics and it looks alright, a little time
worn but better than most. What is the cost on
shipping that beast over here? I would think that
would be the biggest obstacle......Russ

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 14:07:48 -0400
From: AMC74Hornet@xxxxxxxxx (Mr. AMC)
Subject: [AMC-List] Cookie Cutter Cars
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx, BaadAssGremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
	MacsOrphanCarGroup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
	AmericanMotorsModelbuilders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <8727-44413674-9913@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII

The weather, arthritis and breathing problems have made me immobile
today. Just what the wife was looking for, I couldn't go to my friends
shop and hide from her :-( Her "Honey Do" project was for me to go
through the mountainous piles of Hot Rod Magazine, Car Craft Magazine,
Rod & Custom, Popular Hot Rodding and Scale Auto. Even though I already
new this as I went through each magazine over a 3 1/2 hour period 99% of
the magazines had mostly Camero's on the cover and a few with Mustang's
and a rare one with a Mopar. These magazines went from 1992-2006. A few
had some nice Mopar's and an AMC cars inside now and then but the but
the majority was Camero's with the odd Nova or Chevelle. Now some one is
making an all new crate Camero body. :-( I realize that AMC has always
been in a minority but the overwhelming amount of cookie cutter Camero's
makes me glad I drive AMC's. I would rather be one of the few AMC
drivers than one of the many stepford Camero drivers. AMC content I am
done sorting magazines and am going to put a few hours sanding on my
grill resto job.
"Doc"



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 15:35:13 -0400
From: Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Rock Auto has --> factory parts catalog
	reprints!?
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20060415153437.03b46588@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

They also have the desirable 67-72 book. Here's the website of the company 
they're buying from: http://www.autobooksbishko.com/.

Matt

At 10:37 AM 4/15/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>Yowza -- I had no idea -- poking around, finally getting the right rear
>brake wheel cyls, there's a section on www.rockauto.com for
>73/gremlin/232/ for literature. BISHKO #3949, 1800+ pages, description
>sure sounds like the actual factory parts catalog. $84; it's a lot of
>paper and likely not a best-seller.
>
>I did not check other years.
>
>_______________________________________________
>AMC-List mailing list
>AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>http://www.wps.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
>or go to http://www.amc-list.com

mhaas@xxxxxxx
Cincinnati, OH
http://www.mattsoldcars.com
1967 Rambler American wagon
1968 Rambler American sedan
===============================================================
According to a February survey of Internet holdouts released by
UCLA's Center for Communication Policy, people cite
not having a computer as the No. 1 reason they won't go online.



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 16:01:49 -0400
From: Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 62 rambler classic
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20060415153748.03b448b8@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

I don't think the factory panhard rod is supposed to be parallel at all. 
 From what I recall from my former 66 Rebel, the rod had short ends that 
were close to parallel at ride height and the bar connected those two 
sections at a fairly steep angle. I'd check the bushings in the rod, 
transmission, and motor mounts to make sure they're there. Also, the truss 
rods may be damaged (one was rusted out in my Rebel) and if those are gone, 
you'll have all sorts of monkey motion back there.

Based on my previous experience with ladder bars, you do not want to use 
them in a street car. They really are designed for situations where body 
roll is not desired (like drag racing) and you'll probably have problems 
with tires lifting off the ground if you take corners fast. There are "pro 
street" type bars with polyurethane bushing instead of rod ends but they're 
still designed not to allow body roll. Also, 36" ladder bars require floor 
surgery. I put 32 inch bars in my Rebel and they just fit.

Like Frank said, the factory shock mounts will not take the abuse of a coil 
over. You can buy a weld in universal coil over mount that will provide you 
with a strong mount. One issue you may run into with using factory springs 
is that the rear axle isn't centered in the wheel opening. If you decide to 
center the axle in the opening, the spring seats will not line up anymore.

There are a few other options for rear suspension:
- Jaguar or Corvette IRS
- Back half the car
- Leaf springs (this is likely to be the easiest way to convert to an open 
drive line).
- Watts link (this is a wishbone shaped link for the top and you use two 
parallel lower links).
- Find a V8 drive train (axle, torque tube, transmission) and swap bell 
housings on the transmission. Torque tubes are actually quite strong and 
the only real problem with them is parts are a little difficult to find.

If you're really feeling ambitions, you can contact a company like S&W Race 
Cars and have them fab up a complete frame with the front and rear 
suspension and motor mounts you want. I'm not sure how much different there 
is between 58-62 and 63-66 cars but I had considered this for my Rebel and 
they said it wasn't a problem for my Rebel.

Matt

At 02:07 PM 4/15/2006 +0000, you wrote:
>The Panhard bar should be near parallel to the axle when the car is 
>loaded. It will be slightly higher on the body end when the car has a 
>light load. but not much. ALL panhard rods will move the car slightly from 
>side to side with suspension movement, but less than 1" left and right 
>through the full suspension travel. If you can FEEL the movement you have 
>other problems -- loose mounts, worn bushings in the ends, worn shocks, 
>and/or worn springs.
>
>Early 60s Ramblers were still sprung rather softly due to road conditions 
>back then -- still few Interstates. You will need new springs about 15-20% 
>stiffer than stock to attain a modern car ride -- front and rear. You will 
>find this to be MUCH cheaper and easier to install than coil over shocks. 
>Go to www.coilsprings.com and they will make new springs at the desired 
>rate. The new ones will be progressive rate springs also -- they get 
>stiffer as they compress. This provides MUCH improved handling and ride.
>
>The stock shock locations aren't strong enough for coil over shocks. They 
>are also "bayonet" (stud) ends on top. All coil overs I've seen are "eye" 
>end. It would be easy enough to make a steel bracket for the shock end and 
>bolt it where the bracing in the body IS strong enough -- in the coil 
>spring pocket. You would really need to do the same for the front. Make a 
>bracket that sits in the upper spring pocket. On the Classic the spring 
>mount is straight above the spring on top of a screw off tube -- it's a 
>very different trunnion than the American/Javelin. Rather than modify the 
>original I'd get a piece of thin wall tubing the right size and have 
>threaded to match. Then make a bracket for the shock on hte upper end of 
>the tubing.
>
>To mount a four or five speed you will have to go to an open driveshaft. 
>This will require either a ladder bar or four link setup. Ladder bars are 
>easiest, but the four link will ride a little better.
>
>What I think is a better solution is "truck arms". These are basically 
>long ladder bars angled in toward the driveshaft. Check this out at 
>http://www.hotrodstohell.net/truckarm/truckarm_index.htm. Take a look at 
>the "G-Body" kit. This  is closest to what I'd do with a 58-66 big 
>Rambler. It keeps the springs in the stock location (you'll need the 
>stiffer rear springs). The spring seats can be removed from the original 
>axle and bolted to any other axle with a fine thread 3/8" bolt in the 
>tube, just like stock. I did this when using ladder bars on a 63 Classic. 
>My bars were to short (24"), and caused it to bounce a lot on rough roads. 
>I wouldn't use less than a 36" ladder bar now, and the longer the better. 
>You can make your own bars and mount them to the trans crossmember, but 
>you'll have to make solid mounts to replace the rubber crossmember mounts. 
>Worn out rubbr crossmemebr mounts will also greatly affect your ride now. 
>Galvin's (www.ramblerparts.com) has repro rubber mount!
>  s. With
>  the torque tube they are needed, it's easy to fab a solid mount if 
> you're changing to another rear suspension type. While your on the truck 
> arms site, look at the "Shoebox" page. That gives a much niver view of 
> how the system is installed. Most of the kits mount the springs forward 
> on the arms, not desireable with the early Ramblers though. Also check 
> out www.hotrodders.com/forum/home-made-truck-arm-suspension-27086-2.html. 
> This is where someone installed the arms from an actual early 60s Chevy 
> truck in their car.
>
>Yes, there is a lot of frame width difference between the American and 
>Classic! It doesn't look like it, but the rails on the American are only 
>40" apart on the inside and the Classic rails are just over 47" apart. A 
>later big car axle is only a couple inches wider than the Classic axle and 
>has the four link setup. You can remove the four link from a later big car 
>and mount it in the Classic with a little work. If you have a model 20 
>(Classic V-8) now, you can even narrow the axle housing to fit the axles 
>out of the 62 Model 20 housing.
>
>--
>Frank Swygert
>Publisher, "American Independent
>Magazine" (AIM)
>For all AMC enthusiasts
>http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html
>(free download available!)
>
>original message ------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:55:44 -0700 (PDT)
>From: d stohler <das24rules@xxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [AMC-List] 62 rambler classic
>
>i have a 62 rambler classic custom 2 door. it is in stock condition now
>with rebuilt 196 and 3 spd manual. has the coil rear suspensin. my
>panhard bar is not paralell with the axle like it should be so it throws
>the rear end from side to side when over 40 mph. i am looking at getting
>a triangulated 4 link. i am wanting to go with a coil over shock
>package front and rear. does anyone know if the stock shock locations are
>strong enough on these bodied cars to suport a coil over set up? also, if
>any one has read the newest car craft, they built their 67 american
>exactly as i want my 62 classic. can anyone tell me if there is alot of
>difference in the fraim width from the 67 american and a 62 classic? i
>want either a 304 or a 360 in it and a 4 spd manual. any help would be
>great. i want to dive into it when i get back from iraq in a few months.
>thank you for any  help.
>_______________________________________________
>AMC-List mailing list
>AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>http://www.wps.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
>or go to http://www.amc-list.com

mhaas@xxxxxxx
Cincinnati, OH
http://www.mattsoldcars.com
1967 Rambler American wagon
1968 Rambler American sedan
===============================================================
According to a February survey of Internet holdouts released by
UCLA's Center for Communication Policy, people cite
not having a computer as the No. 1 reason they won't go online.



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 22:10:40 -0400
From: "Edwin Atwood" <javelin@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] hi guy's and doll's..fine tune a 390 with a holley
	950	t.b. fuel injrction system!!
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <001301c660fa$f693a700$e568d0d1@xxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

hi my fellow americans...lol..anyboby outhere know of someone reputable to fine tune this holley 950 fuel injection system?? i'm located in north central fla. willing to travel from central fla to south ga. to find a decent/honest mechanic/shoppe that can handle it...little over my head !! thanx......Ed

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
AMC-List mailing list
AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.wps.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list


End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 3, Issue 31
***************************************