Re: Back Sliding/Land Speed Records (turbo 182ci AMC six)
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Re: Back Sliding/Land Speed Records (turbo 182ci AMC six)



Actually, Navarro could have got a lot of FI info from Breedlove in exchange for the motor... 'do a bunch of tuning runs for me and I'll lend you all the stuff' sort of thing. Pure speculation on my part, but I bet it was a two-way exchange there.

I am knocking down the pile of backlogged projects (car computer: running! consulting job: ends 31 Dec!) so in the spring I expect to start contacting people like Schaedler on this motor business, and see if I can't get me some of them rumored-to-exists "facks".






On Dec 5, 2005, at 4:49 AM, farna@xxxxxxx wrote:


You could be right -- there may be a third engine, or it could be the Indy engine but not your particular one. No way to know unless the mechanic from Navarro remembers something about Breedlove. Obviously Navarro either built or supplied technical information for the engine. The "American Spirit" engine was FI though, I thought I mentioned that. The only differences I've spotted is the oil system (stock oil pump on the Breedlove six -- I wonder if it coul be rigged to run dry sump?), most likely the oil pan (yours set up for one turn), and the cam. It just makes sense that the cam would be different for a "put your foot down and hold it for a while" engine vs. one that has to vary speed a good bit more. The Indy engine would need a little more torque. Salters are allowed a push start.


On December 4, 2005 Tom Jennings wrote:


Hi Frank,

I got yr msg re: specs for the 182 ci AMC six at bonneville -- I lost
the message already, duh.

It seems unlikely that the engine I have here was the same one at
Bonneville; the mechanic (Gary) said it was the Willow Run test
motor; it's got a left-hand-only dry sump pan.

However, it's clear that Navarro probably knew how to squeeze the AMC
six more than anyone at that point; making a duplicate would have
been straightforward enough. Since the mechanical dimensions you gave
are the same as this engine, it's likely it's a copy, of the block
anyways. Mine's got the factory oil block castings still in place
too, though it does seem to have been rigged somehow for dry sump. It
also has the aircraft fuel pump on the end of the camshaft, with cast
aluminum "Navarro" timing cover (two of those).

However the specs that I am sure of are identical. The block I can
measure; but other parts were merely 'in the same pile' and I know
some of them were NOT the 1967/1968 motor:

* The cast-stainless turbo manifold I have is for a FUEL INJECTED
motor; it's a copy of the manifold from the later, twin-turbo,
Hilborn-injected six. The early Navarro engine was carburetted. It's
possible that the FI manifold is simply the early manifold with FI
bosses added/drilled, or maybe it was totally different (but
engineering on the smallish scale of Navarro's would hint at heavy
design reuse).

* The cam I have (Winfield) has 244 degree duration; I don't know
enough about cam design to suss out what this cam was designed for:
specs are here http://www.wps.com/AMC/Navarro-turbo-motor/Navarro- Six-
camshaft-specs.txt. Thanks a million, again, to Randy Guynn for
extracting this data from the lumpy stick. Chances are great that
this is a later cam, likely the twin-turbo motor.


* I have a number of pistons, some are really odd sizes, all are True
Forged, some brand new/never used, most incomplete sets. Probably
astronomically expensive castings at this point.

* Still haven't got in touch with the guy who has the conn rods; he
never answers the phone. I'm hoping he'll part with them, in exchange
for other Navarro goodies I have. (After this potential swap I'll
AMClist/eBay some of those trinkets, like 60's Moon tachs for a six!
and such.)



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