Re: LPG in cars

["Retro Ralph" <retroralph@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Jennings" <tomj@xxxxxxx>
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: LPG in cars


> On Mon, 9 May 2005, Jim Blair wrote:
>
> > A: Auto fuel injection systems with LPG use liquid that is pumped to the
> > front. The older carb mixers on dual fuel use vapor from the tank (which
is
> > why the tanks ice up, even on sunny days on long hill climbs), and I had
a
> > BBQ tank for backup on long trips with a manual switchover valve. I
could
> > always tell I was near running out about 50 miles before it did because
the
> > car's power would nosedive as it reached the end. One time I ran out of
even
> > my backup tank, but I let it sit a couple hours till it warmed up
outside
> > and got just enough vapor to slow cruise the last mile to the station!
(I
> > had a 600 mile range with my slant 6 and somehow I forgot to write the
> > mileage down from the previous fillup)
>
Then Tom J wrote:::
> Wow, never heard of vapor-fed motors! That sounds very kludgey.
> My car is dead-ordinary: liquid to the engine compartment, through
> the filter/shutoff, to the converter, which is a coolant-heated
> two-stage converter that outputs -0.5" water column LP gas, via 1"
> hose to the carb.
> > From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
____________________________________________________

That's what my setup was, also, the LP to a converter manifold, then thru
the flex 1" tube to the LP carb (Impco) which fed the LP fuel down the
regular carburetor throat.  I never had a balk.  Hot or cold or rain or dry
no condensation, freeze-up, no gas smell.  Engine always started on first
click on LP with 1 prime shot.  One effect I noted right away with it was
that it sure made the van run good on that cheap regular gas.

This was is big Ford van with 460, usually pulling large travel trailer or a
pontoon boat.  I sure had no complaints with the dual fuel setup.  When
gasoline went back down towards reasonable I would yet use LP or propane as
it ran so well and kept the engine clean as well.  I could drive from
Portland to Billings without refill.  I figured when full it had 45 gal
gasoline and could put in 67 gal propane in 85 gal tank so was about 112
gallons.  I suppose I could have made it to the Black Hills if traveling
light.  So, not great mileage by any means but it was a big heavy package.

The weight of the larger LP tanks and it's fuel didn't seem to amount to
much.  Hardly noticeable in that HD rig.  I suppose it would be more
noticeable in a 1/2 ton or light duty van or truck.

We don't have the same kind of gas crunch around here that we had here in
the 1970's.  At that time we could not get enough gasoline even if we paid
over $3.00 per gal.  The most we could get was 5 gal at a time and on
odd/even days depending on our license plate number.   Now we can get all we
want at any time except that they are charging up to over that $3.00 per
gallon in places.

As I recall, the cost of the propane at that time was less than the
gasoline.  I could go and fill up in Vancouver, WA, about 15 miles out of my
way for about .75 per gallon.  Around SW Portland propane cost was a little
over $1.00 as they added road taxes at the pump. In WA, one had to purchase
a propane fuel stamp in order to purchase propane, if you lived in WA.  At
the time it was a real bargain for me as I lived in OR and not saddled with
the WA fuel stamp tax cost.  I think everyone in Oregon fueled over there if
they could.

I've thought about using extra hi-capacity propane tanks mounted in a travel
trailer chassis and refilling the tank of the tow vehicle with it when
travelling.  I suppose a guy could get away with not paying a road tax once
in a while like that, if he wanted to break the law and cheat the guv a
little.

Anyway, If I was driving one of my AMC's much at all I would not hesitate to
go to a dual fuel system as long as I could find room for suitable fuel
tanks.  Trunk mounted tanks should be fine in an AMX or Javelin with HD
suspension and anti-sway bar.

People then were worried about not having hardened valve seats in the
cylinder heads at that time and driving temps was generally higher with
propane or LPG but I have never heard of case of burned valves due to this
that was attributed to this fuel.  The older engines they were concerned
with usually had lower compresion ratios so mostly were not getting to the
higher temps they were worried about as long as was adjusted properly and
timing was correct.  Many had hardened seat inserted anyway if they had any
valve work done.  There was more of this problem due to having to use
unleaded gasoline.  The intermitent use of propane or LP fuel cleaned up the
combustion chambers and eliminated any spark knock.  It simply burned up the
carbon build up which caused this (which is another plus for using thr water
injector devices, also).
_____________________________________________________________________
Ralph Ausmann  -  Hillsboro, OR - > http://mysite.verizon.net/res79g4m/
<ralph.ausmann@xxxxxxxxxxx> -  http://clubs.hemmings.com/classicamx