Re: Coupe or Sedan?

[<mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I guess I'll add to this. It seems familiar and I think we went over this
before.

When they came out with these things and when I first noticed them in about
1951 on Fords and Chevies they called them "hard top convertibles"

They just had doors like regular convertibles with no frames around the side
windows and no regular convertible top but simply a metal roof on it that
didn't really have any decent sructural support (like a regular
convertible).

We had 2 door hardtop convertibles, and then 4 door hardtop convertibles.
You could always hear the wind whistling when you tried to close the
windows.

Somehow a 2 door hardtop felt sportier than a regular 2 door coupe or sedan.
They certainly were not as safe to ride in.  You could open all the windows
and was almost as breezy as a convertible.

They had no center posts or door posts or window frames (as a rule) and the
roof was distinctly a roof section  and usually had trim around it where
fastened to side and rear body sections.

As near as I recall this was the original premise of these things.  There
was some controversy over them at the time because of no rollover protection
and they didn't seal up inside as well as the cars with the door frames
around the windows, etc.  Most kids preferred them. Me too.

Simply, it was a "convertible type car with a hard top that did not
convert".
I think I agree with Alfred on this.  I don't know about any later changes
of any definitions of "hardtops".  I think there is a distinction  perhaps
between "hardtops" and "hardtop convertibles".  Even though when talking
about "hardtop convertibles" people generally referred to them as
"hardtops".

Seems like someones always gotta start splitting hairs over such things
after 50 years or so...
_____________________________________________________________________
Ralph Ausmann  -  Hillsboro, OR - > http://mysite.verizon.net/res79g4m/
<ralph.ausmann@xxxxxxxxxxx> -  http://clubs.hemmings.com/classicamx




----- Original Message ----- 
From: <akoos@xxxxxxxx>
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 7:40 AM
Subject: RE: Coupe or Sedan?


>
> >The absence of a B-pillar tends to mean it's a coupe.
> >But it seems our own Matador is a glaring example of
> >non-conformity. The 71-73 two-door has no pillar, but
> >is called a 'two-door sedan'. The 74-78, with opera
> >windows installed, has a B-pillar (or does that not
> >count?), yet is called a 'coupe'.
>
> Although 'true' hardtops have no 'b'-pillar and no window frames (and yes,
there were plenty of 4-dr hardtops and even wagons circa '58-60), the way I
always heard it was that the definition of 'hardtop' changed about '74 when
'true' hardtops fell out of favor.  Matador coupes were also known as
'hardtops' because they didn't have window frames...the hardtop definition
came to refer to the 'sportiness' of having a windowless side door rather
than strictly lacking a 'b'-pillar.
>
> However, this definition means that Neons (even 4-doors), Olds Auroras,
much of the Subaru line, etc. are 'hardtops'.  And that's decidedly a
stretch!
>
> I think Matador 'coupes' were called coupes because their NASCAR
equivalents (Monte Carlos, etc.) were also called coupes, but I could be
wrong.
>
> I've never heard a 2-dr '71-73 Matador called a 2-dr sedan, though.  These
are true hardtops.  In '67, however, there was indeed a 2-dr
Rebel/Ambassador hardtop AND sedan, even though they shared a roof...one had
'b'-pillars and window frames, and the other did not.  So the lines are
blurred!
>
> Alfred Koos
> Alamo AMC
> San Antonio, TX
> akoos@xxxxxxxx