Re: [AMC-list] Exotic AMC engines?

[Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

The oil line issue has been argued for a long time. The end result is if 
you don't starve the engine for oil you won't spin the rear bearing. AMC 
"fixed" it in the police engines -- run six quarts instead of five. The 
oil line isn't necessary, and it's impossible for it to supply more oil 
to the rear bearing. Simple physics. There is one passage down from the 
right side lifter/main oil galley to the rear main. The valley oil line 
runs from the main oil feed junction at the front of the block to the 
rear of the right galley just ahead of the feed to the main bearing. 
Having two oil paths to the rear will not feed more oil to the rear main 
bearing -- you can't push more down the main feed. A lot of people have 
run that valley line over the years and some well known engine builders 
swear by it. Many run the extra quart (which IS NOT "over filling" the 
pan) AND the valley oil line. Some tie the right and left galleys 
together at the rear of the block to more equalize pressure. It's been 
proven that there is little to no pressure drop at the rear of the 
galleys (on a dyno by a noted AMC engine builder with pressure gauges in 
the end of each). If it makes you feel more secure run the line -- it's 
a security blanket. There won't be a consensus from AMC people on 
whether the line is needed or not -- just as many run it without 
spinning bearings as don't run it.

I'm very familiar with the history of the Tornado/Torino OHC six. It's a 
good design for the times, the cam would have to be changed for today. 
The single lobe actuating both valves limits the cam profile. That 
doesn't mean it can't have a cam ground that will perform well, but add 
emissions into the mix and it won't fly. The head would need a redesign 
to accept a 12 lobe cam, but that wouldn't be too big a deal. Might have 
to do away with the hemi (or is it more of a double wedge?) combustion 
chamber. By the way, the Torino is STILL raced in Argentina, though 
there are fewer of them being raced now. At least there were about 2-3 
years ago. Haven't heard much from my Argentine contacts since then.

Slanting the six to make it lower profile would indeed be an option. 
Chrysler DID make a hemi headed six, just not over here. The Australian 
model is a hemi, but I don't recall if it's cross-flow. The general car 
culture in the US at the time leaned heavily toward V-8s -- sixes were 
for mom's grocery getter. There was no money in performance sixes in the 
US, so there was no performance development.

Fuel efficiency wasn't the main problem with the Wankel engine, 
emissions were. It got no better or worse fuel economy than similar 
displacement/power output piston engines. It's advantages were lower 
weight, smaller size, and fewer moving parts. GM determined that there 
was no real advantage to using it in then current cars, the only way to 
really take advantage of the Wankel was to design a car that took 
advantage of the compact size and low weight, which is what AMC did. 
With the emissions problems and high tooling costs (hardly any of the 
machinery for piston engines could be utilized), and that there would be 
no advantage for a few years (time for new designs to be ramped up... 
and the cost of that tooling a big burden). GM asked Congress for a 10 
year freeze on emissions to give them time to come up with a solution, 
Congress refused, GM canned it and left AMC hanging. AMC had a license, 
but couldn't afford to tool up for a completely new and different engine 
AND a new and different car to match. They had too much time and money 
invested in the Pacer design, so it was adapted to take the six. Mazda 
went on to come up with a simple solution for the emission problem -- a 
chamber in the exhaust system that had air pumped into it so the excess 
emissions would burn up there outside the engine but before exiting the 
tail pipe. Why didn't GM come up with that?

On 01/04/2013 08:20 AM, Jack Dale wrote:
> My Ex spent 8-grand on a myth?  It's possible, I wasn't there, but Hot 
> Rod/Car Craft have mentioned "the fix" to avoid spinning that bearing 
> on their AMC V-8 builds, so maybe THEY know something YOU don't.   I 
> ALWAYS check my oil.  I found if an engine was overfilled, it either 
> blew it out the pipes, or caused a valve cover leak over time.  I 
> think "the fix" is also on Youtube. You aren't very good with design? 
> Lots of stuff could be done, even IF the cammer engine was taller.  
> Chrysler had a great idea with their  6, they SLANTED it!  AMC 
> couldn't...have done the same? Certain foreign firms(Mercedes-Benz) 
> slanted their engines, too, no problem there.  As you're aware, the 
> '68-69 AMX hoods had "useless bulges" suggestive of I don't know what, 
> but those never stopped me from lusting over the (AMXs--I had #650, a 
> red-red '68 with white stripes & 4-spd, 390go-pak) and, a 
> '70 lime-green 4-spd, 390 Go-Pak) two I owned.  I "give-it"(greif) to 
> everybody.  Chrysler let people down, imo, by not making their 
> slant-six with a cross-flow Hemi-head, the exhaust coming out the left 
> and down and out.  The IKA Torino was RACED.  It appeared at LeMans 
> and won/placed in Germany @ the "'ring".  It was raced all over South 
> America.  Fango drove one occasionally in competition. Sure it was 
> odd, but it should have been developed with a different cammer head, 
> SOHC/DOHC.  Instead of even thinking of the still thirsty wankle, If 
> AMC had developed a cammer 6, they could have, for the Pacer, hacked 
> two cylinders off and turbo'd it, jumping ahead of Buick by a few 
> years, and having economy/urge, your choice, dependent on your 
> "loud-pedal."  I think consumer goods should generally be 
> "over-built", and it's a reasonable expectation to  think it should 
> hold-together with some street-races, not spinning a bearing before 
> the warranty's up, like my '70 AMX (purchased used with a replacement 
> 390, due to, "Ta-Da! --spun bearing).  We were told of Breedlove's 
> records, and even the ads suggested, "Test-drag a Javelin."  And with 
> the AMX, Donohue-Penske's victories in Trans-AM, SC360 Hornet, the 
> SCrambler,--the Machine--those were all AMC performance-themed, "hot" 
> cars that surprised many of the Big Three.  The OHC-Pontiac 6 was 
> first designed by Delorean's teams to go into the Pontiac version of 
> the Corvette, the Banshee, and it had an odd bulge in the hood due to 
> the cammer engine's not being slanted.  Chevy, if it wanted a 6, 
> should have made the Pontiac OHC, and then it'd(OHC) probably be 
> around today.  I think you're correct that if you wanted acceleration, 
> you just checked-off "V-8" on an option sheet.
>
> *From:* Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> *To:* amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 3, 2013 8:49 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [AMC-list] Exotic AMC engines?
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2013 20:09:30 -0800 (PST)
> From: Jack Dale<mercendarian@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:mercendarian@xxxxxxxxx>>
>
> I guess you're right.? That must be why AMC was caught "flat-footed" 
> when the Wankle engine for the Pacer fell through/became impractical.? 
> A cammer-head for the inliners would have attracted more press for the 
> Pacer, but they slapped a two barrel on the 258cu 6, and that was 
> that.? '75 was when they should have been developing the old Willys 
> OHC on the IKA Torino.? I like their 2nd-gen. efforts, except that AMC 
> damaged its brand, imo,?with that bearing that'd spin due to 
> insufficient oil to the mains on wild acceleration.?? There should 
> have been a RECALL to ensure long-life to that bearing, that caused 
> AMC millions (I'm guessing) in warranty claims.

--
Frank Swygert
Editor - American Motors Cars Magazine
www.amc-mag.com

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