Re: [AMC-list] Bunsey Family Tragedy

[Marc Montoni <Freedom@xxxxxxxx>]

Sandwich Maker adh at an.bradford.ma.us said:


>>my mother, who is closing in on 90, stopped driving voluntarily two
>>years ago after a couple of low-speed accidents, and sold her car.
>>they may have been her fault.  she had a new-ish toyota with
>>drive-by-wire throttle...


Just FYI that "scandal" about sudden unintended accelleration has been (fairly predictably) debunked as driver error, all blown way out of proportion by unscrupulous legal practicioners and the lamestream media.  Toyota has a large cohort of older owners -- which was very true of Audi twenty years ago.

http://freevirginia.blogspot.com/2010/07/litigious-americans-eyeball-toyota-loot.html


>>>" By the way, I don't believe the deaths can be attributed to not
>>>" wearing seat belts.  Jeeps were never known for their crash
>>>" protection; and of course they didn't get air bags until 1995.  The
>>>" chassis is a French-designed, light semi-unibody, and they come apart
>>>" pretty easily in a crash.
>>
>>i have to disagree here.  airbags were always intended to -supplement-
>>seat belts, not -replace- them.  belts were and are supposed to be the
>>first line of defense.


I agree that belts are the first line of defense.


>>jeeps are classed as trucks, and don't have to meet car crash
>>standards.  they are as crashworthy as many other small vehicles,
>>including such 'trucks' as the chrysler pt cruiser, which also exploit
>>this loophole.  many japanese suvs are brought in as 'cars' to avoid
>>heavy truck-import duty, then sold as 'trucks' to avoid car safety,
>>emissions, and mileage rules.


I know all manufacturers do that sort of thing.  Personally, I think they shouldn't have to perform histrionics to get their products across the border; but that's another discussion.


>>i might also add that the cherokee was recently rated one of the 10
>>most durable vehicles in the us today, along with such others as the
>>mercedes e300.  that doesn't sound like something that comes apart
>>easily.


True, however, being a durable product, and being crash-worthy, are not necessarily the same thing.  I remember the reviews of the time because in 1995 I was shopping for an SUV or pickup and read the crash reviews for all of the midsize pickups (S10, Ranger, Dakota, Cherokee, Blazer, etc), and they all received poor marks for crash protection.  The Jeep and Dodge were way down on the list.  I ended up buying the 1995 'Kota; I've got a 2001 now.  Prior to that, I bought a 1988 Commanche new.  Both the Commanche and the Dakota developed squeaks, rattles and pops soon after purchase -- and some of those were the crappy factory spot welds moving around.  I looked at a T-boned and overturned Wagoneer in a junk yard in the early nineties.  There were welds along the rockers near the impact zone that looked like they came apart **without** ripping -- bad welds!  How can those help hold the car together in a crash?

Although it has little to do with the Bunsey wreck, one of the things that always annoyed me about both the Commanche and the Dakota was how close the steering wheel, windshield, and firewall were to my face.  Jeez, guys, give it another twelve inches, at least!  My 2001 is much better in this regard, although I'd prefer even more "air space" between me and the crumple zones.

Tom's Cherokee was a 1991.  The Chero unibody was re-engineered in 1997; that was the only time since introduction in 1984 that anything was changed underneath.  If you look at the photos and how the Chero crumpled inwards from the right side (ignore the missing roof; the crash team cut that away to get the occupants out), everyone would have been crushed together regardless of belts.

I agree that it would have been preferable for the family to have been belted up; it *might* have improved the chances for Tom and maybe one of the boys -- but once again the speed at impact was key.


>>did renault really have much to do with jeep design, apart from making
>>advanced tools available?


Roy Lunn (stolen from Ford) and François Castaing worked on the chassis, drivetrain, and suspension.  The chassis had to be lightweight; Castaing took cues from existing Renault small truck designs.


-- Marc


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