Re: [AMC-list] I know why 195.6 ohv

[Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>]

I have to agree with you on the age of the parts being a factor. I sold my American in 1999. It was rebuilt again a couple years later and ran on for a while in Oregon (where the new owner drove it from Georgia). So that was 11 years ago. 

Oh, and if someone disagrees with me I don't mind. I just don't take things like that personally. We all have opinions, sometimes driven by fact and/or observation sometimes not. I know yours are!  But we're more or less on the same track. You tend to nit-pick everything and I sometimes gloss over things (less meticulous than you!), but it all works out in the end! 

Bore it at 0.060 if you can get pistons! There used to be 0.080" pistons for those things, and from all reports they can be safely bored up to 0.125". I have heard of one being bored that much and still had more than the minimum cylinder wall thickness. That was a 58-61 block. Thin-wall casting techniques weren't really perfected until around 63, and I'm reasonably sure they were never applied to the 196 iron block. Still, the 63-65 block might be slightly thinner than older ones, but from my handling them over the years I can't tell a difference -- but I never actually weighed them. If there is any change it's not enough to notice. The blocks on those things weigh enough that you'd never notice a 20 pound or so reduction though! So you might want to save the 0.040" block. 

I'd reconsider the chrome moly rings. I had to run my old flat-head hot (as in just starting to boil over) before I got those blasted things to seal. Regular iron rings should last over 100K the way you maintain and drive your cars. \

I wouldn't be surprised if the cam Doug has is pretty much a copy of the one I had made by Lunati years ago. I sure touted my pleasure with it enough! 0.470 lift, 264° duration (advertised). I'm not complaining or anything if he did. All I did was tell the salesman or whoever answered the phone that I wanted a little more pep from the car, and that's what they did to the cam I sent. It's not like I spec'd the cam or anything. It's nice that someone keeps a couple in stock to send out, saves a week or two of waiting. 

I do want to know how that oil filter conversion comes out. If it works well send Doug the details so he can make some kits available. Could even use the original oil filter and mount, but getting a more readily available filter would be a plus. I don't think it really needs the full flow filter, but it certainly won't hurt longevity of the engine. As you said, the parts are only getting older and harder to find, so any reduction in wear is a plus. 

New head parts! What a thrill! 

Balancing this old tractor motor is probably a bit of overkill. Still, you can do a "minor balance" just by making sure all the pistons (with pins and rings) are the same weight, then do the same to both ends of the rods. That will make a world of difference, and you probably have a scale good down to a few grams. 

---------
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:45:33 -0800
From: tom jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>

Hey Frank, we went back and forth on this, but I just want to make sure 
we're OK here. I certainly don't doubt your experience with the motor. 
I'm certainly not blaming design shortcomings on general unreliability 
(if you torque on sked yadda yadda ...).

I think the real "problem" is that they are all REALLY REALLY OLD now
(besides any screwups I made on the headbolt lube etc). Your 14 years of
driving one was a while back, right? (At least 14 years  :-)  This motor is in
"Model A" territory in a lot of ways. It's unreasonable to expect to hold
them to modern standards of highway buzzing on old worn parts and 'fresh up'
rebuilds.

I'm saying I likely screwed up and my parts are now older than yours, and
not that I'm in any way doubting your experience or knowledge here.



Was at the machine shop yesterday pickup up my excess parts. I cleaned up 18
pistons and rods, two blocks, etc ...

* The "blue" block (my NORS) unfortunately had pitting where the pistons sat
for 30+ years. It didn't hone out, it will need an overbore. It's too bad,
it's at .040, probably 005 would clean it up but the next increment is of
course 60.

* My "original" block, the rebuilt thing that was in the car, the bores are
completely perfect, round, and the hone pattern is fine. A quick hone
cleaned it up and I can use the .040 over pistons from the "blue" motor with
new rings. Going chrome moly, and I'll just be patient in breakin.

* I bought, sight unseen, one of Doug Galvin's custom ground cams. The spec
sheet is in the box, so I'll run it through Dsktop Dyno to see, but it's
supposed to be an "RV" type cam, which sounds a bit silly with this motor,
but you don't want to rev to 4000 very often in this thing, so there's not
much up there to sacrifice anyways! This means I have a "spare" brand new,
unused crankshaft. I can send Galvin's the worn but decent one as a core.

* Bought an "oil pump kit" (gears and relief spring) and will make a 3/8"
steel cover with outlet, exactly the same as stock but outlet is 180 degrees
mirrored, about perfect. I assume the remote oil filter kit (Summit, years
ago) is Brand C, whatever the 350 v8 uses I'm sure, no brainer.

* Bought NEW valves and NEW springs for my NEW head. Since I have like 48+
rockers I'm sure I can find good dozen and I have, finally, an non-worn
rocker shaft.


Abandoned all thoughts of balancing anything. $$$$! I'm $1200 into this
thing and the crank is not even in the block yet! Typical motor build, every
item is $100 and there are a lot of them.

--
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)

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