[Amc-list] Fw: Intake question

["RetroRalph" <retroralph@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

See below for the article by John Elle... 
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Ralph Ausmann  -  Hillsboro, OR - > http://mysite.verizon.net/res79g4m
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: Joe Fulton
To: AMC/Rambler owners, drivers and fans.
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] Intake question

I think John Elle posted about the differences in height a couple of 
years ago.  If you have access to an archives CD you might check it. 
Otherwise, I think Ralph Aussman (sp?, sorry Ralph) still vends the 
archive Cds.

Joe Fulton
--- On Sun, 11/23/08, RAY MICK <rmick@xxxxxxx> wrote:

> From: RAY MICK <rmick@xxxxxxx>
> Subject: [Amc-list] Intake question
> To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 6:50 PM
> Any one know how much taller an Eddelbrock air gap intake is
> compared
> to a stock AMC V 8 manifold?
> Ray Mick
> The older I get the faster I was.
> Somewhere in Kansas
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(From Archives CD Files)

|\ From: John Elle <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Edelbrock Air Gap on a Mark Donohue!!!!
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 19:27:00
This is information on installing Edelbrocks new Air Gap Manifold 
#7531on my 1970 390 equipped Mark Donohue with the ram air hood package. 
I might point out here that I purchased my manifold from Randy Guynn at 
Performance American Style where I placed my name on a list there and 
when things arrived, they were sent out. I received both good service 
and value for my money. Thanks Randy.

First let me make this perfectly clear. This manifold will not clear the 
ram air package on such equipped cars. Secondly, boy howdie, does it 
look good installed. Talk about oooooo-aaaaah factor at the cruise night 
along with the newest and latest state of the art intake manifold.

Plan A
Step one on the installation as done by me!:
1. Carefully make all of the measurements that involve locating the air 
cleaner bowl in relation to the gasket of the Ram Air package on the 
hood and clearance for the chrome air cleaner to the inside of the air 
duct.
2. Record all data prior to disassembly
3. Disassemble factory 4bbl manifold and all supporting hardware and 
double check measurements only to discover you made them in such a way 
that they proved to be totally useless.

Revert to Plan B
1. Install new Edelbrock air gap manifold. I used the Fel-Pro gasket set 
#MS96011, which is the valley pan gasket set. I installed using a 
combination of instructions on sealents. Those that came with the gasket 
set and those that came with the instructions from Edelbrock. I used 
Form-a-gasket #2 on the intake ports both sides of the metal valley pan 
gasket and the RTV recommendation along with the rubber end gaskets that 
came with the Fel-Pro gasket instructions.

I am not sure if it was correct or not, being some where in my fading 
memory bank it was a recommendation to use large flat washers under the 
hold down screws rather than lock washers when you are working with 
aluminum, so I did to. I also used Form-A-Gasket #2 on the threads of 
all bolts as a form of sealant and sort of a lock tite situation.
The results of step one:
Everything fits, nothing leaks (when run) looks killer good.

Step 2.
For the Oil Fill Pipe I used a length of plumbing pipe, chrome plated 
brass, that was cut to length and installed.
Step 3.
Verify hood closes. It doesn't

Step 4
Make new measurements and rediscover the air cleaner bowl is too high as 
is the filter element. The manifold raises everything quite a ways.

Step 5
Now before I continue with step 5 let me identify the variables that I 
am working with
1. I am using  71 and up Free Flow Exhaust Manifolds
2. I am using an aftermarket stove pipe kit that allows me to use a flex 
hose on the existing heat stove on the free flow manifolds and a step up 
coupler on the inlet of the air horn on the Factory Air Cleaner bowl so 
the heat riser is on the car and satisfies smog requirements where 
needed. The following steps are also valid if you are using the stock 70 
Heat stove and riser.

I am also using a Carter 625cfm AFB carburetor. If any one is using a 
Holley and the dimensions are different or for some reason the Holly is 
not plumbed like a Carter all bets are off.

Step 5 again
Object, Lower the carburetor away from the hood.
Accomplished by removing composite material spacer between the 
carburetor and the intake manifold. This can be done for two reasons:
Reason 1. The composite spacer has the PCV manifold connection on it. 
The Carter AFB has the same thing in the carburetor body on the rear.
Remove plug, insert appropriate fitting and done.
Reason 2. Composite spacer servers to isolate the carburetor from heat 
generated by the exhaust cross over for carburetor heating in the stock 
manifold. The Air gap does not have this feature so there for it does 
not have the heat problems.
Advantages, drops the carburetor height the distance of the spacer. 
Also, I do not have a dire need for the exhaust cross over heat function 
as it is over 100 degrees today, that is hot enough and part of the 
reason for purchasing this manifold is that it does not have this cross 
over heat function. Also the heat riser valve assembly was removed some 
20 years ago so I do not have to worry about whether it functions or 
not.

Step 6.
Identify interference with air cleaner bowl to hood. Yupper, it has 
interference, and quite a bit.

Step 7.
Purchase the lower plate for one of Edelbrock's after market air 
cleaner. The plate is designed to drop the position of the air filter in 
relation to the carburetor for tight hood clearances. The important 
thing here is that you need a 14 inch diameter bowl to mate with the Ram 
Air Gasket, so I bought one that would take a 14 inch filter. The 
thought process is to cut the center of the bowl out and rest the 
outside part on the bottom plate assembly. This same lower plate can 
come in two variations. A small rise, suitable for use with Holley Carbs 
or a high rise for clearance of Carter/Edelbrock carbs.

This is the distance of the mounting flange on the top of the 
carburetor. It is imperative that you have the correct unit for your 
carburetor. If you have the one for a Holley, and adapter spacer can be 
purchased for it for use on a Carter/Edelbrock. Note, the flat part of 
this lower plate extends out in a radius around the carburetor before it 
drops down for the filter/hood clearance. This is large enough to set a 
10 inch filter on. And what size does the factory used for the ram air 
cleaner? A 10 inch filter unit naturally.

O.k., I now have the carburetor as low as it can go on the engine. Next 
to see what kind of distance I need between the hood gasket and the 
bottom plate. This is determined by a little sleuthing, such as 
inverting the air AMC air cleaner bowl and setting it on the lower plate 
only to discover that the hood will not close. The height of the bowl 
sides want to be about 1/2 inch lower.

I now have two choices. Cut the center out of the AMC are cleaner bowl 
and using a few body tools, roll the edge down about 1/2 inch and try 
again. But this would mean cutting up my Stock AMC RAM AIR bowl. 
Something I would like not to do if I ever want to put he engine back to 
stock. Soooooo! on to Step 8...

Step 8
I measure the height of the Stock AMC air cleaner bowl and it 3 5/8 
inches tall. I jump in the trusty van and hi tail it to Cottonwood to 
B&R auto salvage to see what I can find. 2 hours later I pull in the 
yard and talk to Bob and he tells me to wander around and see what I can 
find.

After a number of false starts I find an air cleaner bowl off of a 1966 
Plymouth 318 2bbl car that has a 14 inch diameter. I check the height, 
it 3 1/8 inches. By doggies, that is what I was looking for, about 1/2 
inch shorter in height and 14 inches across so it will mate with the 
gasket on the ram air.

Step 9
I hurry home and proceed to hog the center out of the Plymouth Air 
cleaner bowl so it will sit in the air filter support of my chrome 
plated Edelbrock low profile air cleaner lower plate. I trial fit to 
car. Hood does close. Using some crumpled up aluminum foil I determine 
that clearance and fit to the gasket is acceptable. You place crumpled 
up aluminum foil on the edge of the air cleaner and close the hood. The 
squish factor tells you what clearances there is.

Step 10.
I carefully measure and drill holes and using a bead of RTV around the 
circumference I pop rivet the modified air cleaner bowl to the Edelbrock 
low profile lower plate. I then unbolt the air horn that goes onto the 
Stove pipe riser and pop rivet it over the opening on the side of the 
Plymouth bowl after I have removed all unneeded Plymouth hard ware. I 
now have the bottom half of a working ram air cleaner bowl.

Step 11.
By carefully measuring again I determine that I need a 10 inch in 
outside diameter, 7 3/4 inch inside diameter, 2 inches tall air cleaner 
filter element.

A call to my friendly car quest store with this request and Jim says. " 
Call me back in 20 min.1" I wait, call him back and he says it is on the 
way from the warehouse now.

Low and behold when I go down, there is an air filter element, Car Qwest 
number 87912 filter element in a very dusty box. (Shows really slow 
turnover. I have no idea what it is for yet but maybe Randy can figure 
it out. ) It is 2.02 inches tall, 10 1/4 inches outside and a little 
over 7 3/4 inches inside diameter.

Hot diggaties, it fits perfect. A quick run to Ace Hardware for a length 
of 1/4-20 all thread and I have a new carburetor chrome plate top hat 
hold down bolt, install it, tighten the wing nut and everything is 
together and it fits.

Open the hood, it looks factory sort of, satisfies my desire of having a 
working ram air system with the Edlebrock Air Gap Manifold as installed 
on my Donohue.

So like I said when I started off.  The Air gap manifold does not work 
an a ram air hood such as used on the Donohue and related fresh air 
packages for the AMX. But Boy Howdie, it sure looks good when you get it 
installed.

This is what it took me to get this manifold installed as I wanted it to 
be. To emulate the Factory Original Set up. The height problem is not 
unique to the Air Gap Manifold, the Performer had the same problem. I 
just did not want a Performer bad enough to go through this much effort. 
It worked for me. Hope some of this helps you too.

As far as performance results? None yet. I can say that all of my 
carburetor adjutments were on the money when I started the engine. I 
expect the overall performance to be a lot crisper, especially here in 
the heat of the Desert. I will leave it to the dyno people or the 
serious drag racers to give a solid report on the results of this 
manifold. But at the present I have nothing negative to say about the 
product, fit and finish or anything else. It makes me happy and you all 
know, It doesn't take much to amuse us poor folks.
Have a good AMC day

John T Elle - Peoria AZ - johnelle@xxxxxxxxx
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