[Amc-list] chilson show
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[Amc-list] chilson show
- From: Poncho7amx@xxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 23:36:29 EDT
does any one no if there is a show this year
In a message dated 8/15/2008 3:00:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
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Today's Topics:
1. 72 360 with 3 bolt Blncr- Late flywheel? (Jesse)
2. Cordova Caravan from MO? (Jesse)
3. Re: Cordova Caravan from MO? (Steven F. Brueggeman)
4. Re: production numbers (Frank Swygert)
5. Re: Rambler six comma fast (Frank Swygert)
6. AMC six specs (Frank Swygert)
7. Re: WAS: AMC six specs, NOW inliners (Joe Fulton)
8. Re: Rambler six comma fast (Sandwich Maker)
9. Re: Rambler six comma fast (Tom Jennings)
10. Bottle Shock--AMC Content Involved (Ross Guistino)
11. Re: WAS: AMC six specs, NOW inliners (Tom Jennings)
12. Re: WAS: AMC six specs, NOW inliners (Joe Fulton)
13. Re: Rambler six comma fast (Sandwich Maker)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:23:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jesse <j2sax@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Amc-list] 72 360 with 3 bolt Blncr- Late flywheel?
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <984589.41434.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hey guys,
Scrapping out the 72 Ambo 4 door tomorrow and have about everything out of
it, though I may pay someone to yank the windshield and rear glass... I just
can't see cruching them!
So this has the 72 360 with 3 bolt harmonic balancer and a 727 trans
(LOOOONG tailhousing!) I want to put mate the 360 with a Jeep T-18A I am using in a
Commando project.
Does this take the later flywheel or the earlier version likeon the 70 and
back? I figured withe the 727 trans it would be the later, but I have never
had a 71 and up with the 3 hole balancer, so I am not sure!
Have a great weekend,
Jesse
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:26:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jesse <j2sax@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Amc-list] Cordova Caravan from MO?
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <702424.64527.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Anyone heading up from MO to Cordova? I am probably not going to be taking
the AMX as I need to sell a bunch of stuff to help pay for the 2 post lift I
got and finish the driveway to my shop. (mostly engines... 401 and several
360's along with the Ambo doors I just got)
Thanks,
Jesse
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 05:55:47 -0500
From: "Steven F. Brueggeman" <amcer@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] Cordova Caravan from MO?
To: <j2sax@xxxxxxxxx>, "AMC/Rambler owners,drivers and fans."
<amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <017201c8fec5$7a04da90$aa20d662@your9efcb93c24>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I'm in Illinois, right on the Mississippi and I'll be going. Where are you
crossing from MO to IL?
-Steve-
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse" <j2sax@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 12:26 AM
Subject: [Amc-list] Cordova Caravan from MO?
> Anyone heading up from MO to Cordova? I am probably not going to be
> taking the AMX as I need to sell a bunch of stuff to help pay for the 2
> post lift I got and finish the driveway to my shop. (mostly engines...
> 401 and several 360's along with the Ambo doors I just got)
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jesse
> _______________________________________________
> Amc-list mailing list
> Amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://splatter.wps.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:09:59 -0400
From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] production numbers
To: chad chadwick <chadchadwick@xxxxxxxx>, AMC List
<amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <48A58E37.8070700@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Mail to the list needs to be sent to "amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx". I
forwarded this message to the list for you.
But to answer: There's no way to tell how many Javelins were sold in
California. AMC just didn't keep or publish that kind of info. You can
search the internet and find some Javelin and AMX numbers broken down a
bit better, but only because some enterprising individual had access to
the numbers and thought to save them -- such numbers aren't available
for most AMC models, and AMC didn't have much need for them over a few
years old.
I can tell you that there were 29,097 base model 1968 Javelins made,
plus 26,027 SST models -- 55,124 total. 17,298 had 232 six cylinder
engines (14,750 base, 2,548 SST).
If you're looking to upgrade the drivetrain consider a 4.0L Jeep
Cherokee/Wrangler six over a V-8. It's much easier to drop in if you're
not scared of the wiring, and has about the same power as a stock 360
V-8. If you can find a two wheel drive Cherokee with auto trans you get
the benefit of an overdrive transmission too! The stock transmission
won't work with the newer six -- the bell housing bolt pattern changed
in 1972, so only 71 and earlier six cylinder engines will bolt up to
your transmission.
There's a lot that can be done to the 232, so if you're looking for
something a little spunkier but will still get good mileage just upgrade
it. It really needs a new cam, as the factory cam is very mild. An "RV"
or "towing" cam produces power in the lower rpm range, and is best for
everyday driving. High rpm horsepower is really only good for bragging
rights and racing, not everyday street driving! The factory 2V carb and
a good turbo muffler and 2" exhaust system will work wonders if you have
the 1V and factory type exhaust now. And get rid of the points! You
don't need anything expensive or fancy, just order a Pertronix points
replacement unit. It fits in your stock distributor and just needs a
switched 12V wire added to make it work. Keep the points in the glove
box as a back-up in case the Pertronix unit fails (rare!) -- you just
pop them back in and go.
chad chadwick wrote:
> hi all i we just thinking i know that can be painful , here goes i'm
> rebuilding a 68 javelin 6 cyl. i read that they made 56.000 give or
> take a few ,how minny were 6 cyl and how minny were sold in CA. it's
> just a thought chad
>
> --
> Be Yourself @ mail.com!
> Choose From 200+ Email Addresses
> Get a *Free* Account at www.mail.com <http://www.mail.com/Product.aspx>!
--
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars"
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:13:36 -0400
From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] Rambler six comma fast
To: AMC List <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <48A59D20.9000508@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Standard bore is indeed 3.875"! Most pubs round it up to 3.88",
including Chrysler's/Jeep's. The metric specs are rounded to a single
decimal -- 98.4mm x 87.4mm -- which comes out to 3.87401575" x
3.44094488", so you're correct in surmising the stroke is close to
3-7/16". 3.4375" is 87.3125 mm, so it's a bit larger than 3-7/16", but
not 3-1/2" (88.9 mm). 3-31/64" seems to be about right in English
fractional units...
------------
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:56:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
I still wonder if the 4.0 isn't -really- 3 7/8" x 3 7/16" - 3.875" x 3.4375"
--
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars"
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 12:01:29 -0400
From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [Amc-list] AMC six specs
To: AMC List <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <48A5A859.8010107@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I just posted this on the In-Liners board in reference to how to
identify AMC six displacement. Wanted to pass it on here since we had a
specs discussion a day or two ago. I looked up the deck height in the
TSMs, which may not be correct!
--------------------------------
Modern AMC sixes/years:
199 - 3.75" bore, 3.00" stroke
"short deck", 6.125" rod, 1966-1970
232 - 3.75" bore, 3.50" stroke
"short deck", 5.875" rod, 1964-1970
"tall deck", 6.125" rod, 1971-1979
258 - 3.750" bore, 3.895" stroke
"tall deck", 5.875" rod, 1971-89
242 (4.0L) - 3.875" bore, 3.440" stroke
(note that most pubs round 3.875" to 3.88")
"tall deck", 6.125" rod, 1987-2006
Only two deck heights. Tall deck is 9.528-9.534". There's a 1/8"
difference between short and tall (half the rod length difference).
Short should be 9.278-9.284". Tall is from a 74-76 AMC factory service
manuals, prior to 74 deck height wasn't printed. Deck height changes
slightly over the years - 77-82 states 9.487-9.493", 93 Jeep factory
manual states 9.429-9.435". Don't know if the blocks actually vary over
the years to alter compression or there are errors in the manuals.
Note that two different bell housing sizes were used. 64-71 used the
"small" diameter bell as used on prior AMC/Nash sixes. Starter is on the
left hand side. 72-06 used a larger diameter bell, same bolt pattern as
the AMC V-8. Six cylinder bells are roughly 6" deep, V-8 bells are
roughly 8" deep. Use corresponding transmission with bell to swap. 71
and earlier also use a Borg Warner auto which uses the same crank flange
as stick shift models. 72+ use a custom made Chrysler Torque Flite auto
trans (AMC bell housing pattern is the only difference from Chrylser
models). The stick shift flywheels interchange, but the Chrsyler
flexplate will only bolt to 72+ cranks. The crank flange has an
indentation that aligns the flexplate.
Heads varied, but all mid 1980 and prior engines used a cast iron intake
and exhaust that bolted together and 1/2" head bolts. Mid 1980 and later
used an aluminum intake separate from the cast iron exhaust manifold and
7/16" head bolts through 1986. 1987 moved to a cast aluminum valve cover
and back to 1/2" head bolts.
Cranks are 12 counterweight through mid 1980 (corresponds with head bolt
and manifold changes), four counterweight after. There doesn't appear to
be any strength differences in the cranks, though the older crank is
heavier. The only noted difference is the lighter crank can spin up
slightly faster (we're talking milliseconds here!) and the heavier crank
has more stall resistance due to greater rotating mass. Rock crawlers
make good use of the heavy crank, but breakage reports are about the
same for both.
There's no way to look at any engine and tell what size it is except for
the 4.0L -- it has no provision for a mechanical fuel pump. There is a
code stamped on a flat on the block near the block/head parting line
between cylinders #2 and #3 on the right side (spark plug side). The
fourth character is the engine code.
A - 199/1V, 70
A - 258/1V, 71-79
B - 258/1V low compression (Jeep only), 71-74
C - 258/2V, 76-89
E - 232/1V, 70-79
F - 232/1V low compression (Jeep only), 71-74
G - 232/2V, 70-74
J - 199/1V, 66-69
L - 232 (1V or 2V), 64-69
MX - 242 EFI (4.0L -- Jeep only), 87-06
note: may have just "M"
The first character of the engine code is the year -- that's how you
tell the 70 199 and 71-79 258 apart! From 1980 on the first character is
the last digit of the year, and zero is used. Before then it's more
complicated! The code started in 1959 with "1" used for 1959. Just count
forward through 9, then skip zero and start over. So "1" could be 1959,
1968, or 1977. Knowing what engine sizes were built during a year and
some engine details is necessary to decipher the code correctly. So code
108A15 could be a 68 199 or a 77 258. Check starter position. 68 would
be on the left, 77 on the right. Clear as a bell, right??
Incidentally, the 2nd and 3rd characters are the month the engine was
built, and the last two are the day of the month.
--
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars"
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 09:37:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Fulton <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] WAS: AMC six specs, NOW inliners
To: "AMC/Rambler owners, drivers and fans." <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <941557.47323.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Frank I am pleased that you are posting to the
inliners.org. Maybe you'll shine some light into the
darkness of that group. My experience with members
(including senior members of that group) at Bonneville
has been that they are totally GM (chevy especially)
guys. The car I have crewed on the last three years
has a Buick straight 8 in a vintage class. We always
get an invitation to their barbecue (partly I think
because the car holds the record in its class). They
don't really seem interested in the technology in the
car even thought it is GM (originally, though highly
modified).
When I mention in conversation that I'm in to AMCs I
just get a blank stare from the otherwise gregarious
guy who issues the invitation every year.
Most of those guys eat and sleep chevies and GMCs and
dont' know or care that AMC ever existed. After all
Nash just made R_a_m_b_l_e_r_s. There ARE many guys
at Bonneville who are open minded will look for ways
to go faster no matter who made the technology, but
the inliners organization generally does not count
many of those guys among its members.
I have nothing against GM it's just that the inliners
organization should probably be named Chevy/GMC Sixes
or something of the sort.
Joe Fulton
Salinas, CA
--- Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> I just posted this on the In-Liners board in
> reference to how to
> identify AMC six displacement.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:08:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] Rambler six comma fast
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200808151708.m7FH8j305046@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
"
" I still wonder if the 4.0 isn't -really- 3 7/8" x 3 7/16" - 3.875" x
3.4375"
"
" ------------
" From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>
"
" Standard bore is indeed 3.875"! Most pubs round it up to 3.88",
" including Chrysler's/Jeep's. The metric specs are rounded to a single
" decimal -- 98.4mm x 87.4mm -- which comes out to 3.87401575" x
" 3.44094488", so you're correct in surmising the stroke is close to
" 3-7/16". 3.4375" is 87.3125 mm, so it's a bit larger than 3-7/16",
" but not 3-1/2" (88.9 mm). 3-31/64" seems to be about right in English
" fractional units...
but suppose the stroke was rounded to 2 decimals -before- metric
conversion? 3 7/16" -> 3.44" -> 87.4mm...
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:20:41 -0700
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] Rambler six comma fast
To: "AMC/Rambler owners, drivers and fans." <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <48A5BAE9.9090400@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Wrambler242@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> That's why I keep harping on the 4.0L block...
> Big bore and short stroke.
Yeah,it's clearly the smart choice for later blocks here.
The ONLY reason I would consider the old-six pattern is to use this
crazy block with it's diesel-thick cylinders and O-ringing.
Frank Swygert wrote:
> With an adapter you can use a Ford V-6 T-5.
Yeah, that lovely Calif. Pony Car adapter! But is it wise to put gobs of
horsepower in front of those antique little bellhousings?
> If you use all the old head stuff whi is the wiser, cept us AMC guys!
> The only external clue that is real visible is the lack of a fuel pump dr
ive.
> Should be a way to make it work out.
And EFI is the way to go anyways.
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:25:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Ross Guistino" <rossg@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Amc-list] Bottle Shock--AMC Content Involved
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<4348.204.117.11.100.1218821153.squirrel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
A new movie is out about the wine industry called Bottle Shock. There is
a pretty sweet yellow '74 Gremlin in it which has a prominent spot during
the movie, driven by one of the stars--Alan Rickman. The poor Gremlin
gets a kick in the tire by said star but that's the price you pay for
being a star I guess. And oh, by the way, I was an extra in two
different scenes. I was originally called to have my Gremlin in the movie
and then they decided not to use mine but kept me on as one of the winery
owners. Truth be told, I look like one of the farm hands in a red plaid
shirt and a cowboy hat, but I'm not complaining.
A fellow NorCal AMC Club member was also an extra and had his AMX with him
too. I'm not sure if he made the film or ended up on the cutting room
floor.
You can see the trailer here:
http://www.bottleshockthemovie.com/
If a trailer opens automatically, close it. A better one is located by
clicking on the "trailer" bottle in the upper right of the page.
Ross Guistino
Rohnert Park, CA
'73 Gremlin 304 aka Vivo
'75 Gremlin X aka Greta
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:36:57 -0700
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] WAS: AMC six specs, NOW inliners
To: "AMC/Rambler owners, drivers and fans." <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <48A5BEB9.2070505@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Joe Fulton wrote:
> Frank I am pleased that you are posting to the
> inliners.org. Maybe you'll shine some light into the
> darkness of that group.
...
> I have nothing against GM it's just that the inliners
> organization should probably be named Chevy/GMC Sixes
> or something of the sort.
Amen.
It's too bad, I otherwise like the emphasis there on the unusual, on
thought-out solutions not just store-bought, and sixes. The forum has
some non-GM stuff but it's marginal. I get the newsletter etc, and like
a lot of car stuff it's very very narrowly focused and the crowd is not
very diverse. I'm not dis'n'em, it's their thing, and they welcome new
people, but they're doing that one thing.
I've been itching for something vaguely similar, where AMC is maybe just
another brand on par with the rest, good points, bad points, but no or
little Brand C or F!
Last Saturday we had a going-away party for a friend moving to Mass. for
a 1 year internship. We got wierdo-car quorum!
Dr. Nick has four Tatras.
Jason drives a Scimitar.
Paul, old Citroens.
Me, Ramblers of course.
David -- drove to the party in his '67 Trabant!
Paul, 24 Nash, 48 Indian (2 wheels), more.
All driven (well, not Citroens, does anyone DRIVE those or just await
parts?). Makes my cars look like as interesting as 6 cyl Chevy Novas in
1974. Mechanical skills vary from skilled artisan to can-change-points.
Not a bad start. Ages and backgrounds and skills vary, another good sign.
So we're gonna start a 'wierdo car club'. Jason and I have talked about
it for a while, but didn't want it to be just armchair can fans, some
internet webpage crap.
Blessing of the Cars (now defunct) had a lot of 'none of the above' car
nuts, and the 24 Hours of LeMons is too... where my '70 Hornet was (1)
revered and (2) very many people knew what it was. Then there's
http://jalopnik.com, who are personal friends of some of the above...
Time is ripe...
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:59:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Fulton <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] WAS: AMC six specs, NOW inliners
To: "AMC/Rambler owners, drivers and fans." <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <510092.9613.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
This week is "auto week" here on the central coast
with the Pebble Beach concourse this weekend and other
shows/auctions in Monterey as well as the races at
Laguna Seca. This morning on the way to work I saw a
parade of mostly Italian sports cars headed for
highway 156 and Monterey. I know there were several
Alfa's but there were several I could not identify. I
saw no Ramblers today, but yesterday there was a white
2-door 220 or 330, 1964 or 65 model in traffic. Nice
paint.
In other news, I'm finally sending the 73 Hornet to
the scrapper this weekend and have resolved a personal
conflict in my life so I will be able to complete the
build of the 195.6 you saw on the engine stand and get
that 64 Rambler back on the road this summer.
--- Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx> wrote:
Last Saturday we had a going-away party for a friend
> moving to Mass. for
> a 1 year internship. We got wierdo-car quorum!
Here in the Bay Area you can see a real variety of
wierdo cars on craigslist. I'd like to have more time,
money and most of all space to spend some quality time
with some of them.
Joe Fulton
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:46:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] Rambler six comma fast
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200808151846.m7FIkhn11849@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
"
" Frank Swygert wrote:
"
" > With an adapter you can use a Ford V-6 T-5.
"
" Yeah, that lovely Calif. Pony Car adapter! But is it wise to put gobs of
" horsepower in front of those antique little bellhousings?
vy gd point. a couple of years ago i chatted with a late-model
mustang racer at the loudon scca regionals. he said he'd had some odd
transmission failures that weren't cured until he ditched the stock
aluminum bell for a steel mcleod scattershield/bell.
his 500-600 hp engine was enough to make the stock bell flex!
--
i might add that my 'mexican' bell is iron and about double the t96
bell weight.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
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End of Amc-list Digest, Vol 20, Issue 27
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