does any one no if there is a show this year In a message dated 8/15/2008 3:00:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, amc-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx writes: Send Amc-list mailing list submissions to amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://splatter.wps.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/amc-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to amc-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx You can reach the person managing the list at amc-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxx When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Amc-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. 72 360 with 3 bolt Blncr- Late flywheel? (Jesse) 2. Cordova Caravan from MO? (Jesse) 3. Re: Cordova Caravan from MO? (Steven F. Brueggeman) 4. Re: production numbers (Frank Swygert) 5. Re: Rambler six comma fast (Frank Swygert) 6. AMC six specs (Frank Swygert) 7. Re: WAS: AMC six specs, NOW inliners (Joe Fulton) 8. Re: Rambler six comma fast (Sandwich Maker) 9. Re: Rambler six comma fast (Tom Jennings) 10. Bottle Shock--AMC Content Involved (Ross Guistino) 11. Re: WAS: AMC six specs, NOW inliners (Tom Jennings) 12. Re: WAS: AMC six specs, NOW inliners (Joe Fulton) 13. Re: Rambler six comma fast (Sandwich Maker) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:23:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Jesse <j2sax@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: [Amc-list] 72 360 with 3 bolt Blncr- Late flywheel? To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx Message-ID: <984589.41434.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hey guys, Scrapping out the 72 Ambo 4 door tomorrow and have about everything out of it, though I may pay someone to yank the windshield and rear glass... I just can't see cruching them! So this has the 72 360 with 3 bolt harmonic balancer and a 727 trans (LOOOONG tailhousing!) I want to put mate the 360 with a Jeep T-18A I am using in a Commando project. Does this take the later flywheel or the earlier version likeon the 70 and back? I figured withe the 727 trans it would be the later, but I have never had a 71 and up with the 3 hole balancer, so I am not sure! Have a great weekend, Jesse ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:26:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Jesse <j2sax@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: [Amc-list] Cordova Caravan from MO? To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx Message-ID: <702424.64527.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Anyone heading up from MO to Cordova? I am probably not going to be taking the AMX as I need to sell a bunch of stuff to help pay for the 2 post lift I got and finish the driveway to my shop. (mostly engines... 401 and several 360's along with the Ambo doors I just got) Thanks, Jesse ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 05:55:47 -0500 From: "Steven F. Brueggeman" <amcer@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [Amc-list] Cordova Caravan from MO? To: <j2sax@xxxxxxxxx>, "AMC/Rambler owners,drivers and fans." <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <017201c8fec5$7a04da90$aa20d662@your9efcb93c24> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I'm in Illinois, right on the Mississippi and I'll be going. Where are you crossing from MO to IL? -Steve- ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jesse" <j2sax@xxxxxxxxx> To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 12:26 AM Subject: [Amc-list] Cordova Caravan from MO? > Anyone heading up from MO to Cordova? I am probably not going to be > taking the AMX as I need to sell a bunch of stuff to help pay for the 2 > post lift I got and finish the driveway to my shop. (mostly engines... > 401 and several 360's along with the Ambo doors I just got) > > Thanks, > > Jesse > _______________________________________________ > Amc-list mailing list > Amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx > http://splatter.wps.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/amc-list > ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:09:59 -0400 From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [Amc-list] production numbers To: chad chadwick <chadchadwick@xxxxxxxx>, AMC List <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <48A58E37.8070700@xxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mail to the list needs to be sent to "amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx". I forwarded this message to the list for you. But to answer: There's no way to tell how many Javelins were sold in California. AMC just didn't keep or publish that kind of info. You can search the internet and find some Javelin and AMX numbers broken down a bit better, but only because some enterprising individual had access to the numbers and thought to save them -- such numbers aren't available for most AMC models, and AMC didn't have much need for them over a few years old. I can tell you that there were 29,097 base model 1968 Javelins made, plus 26,027 SST models -- 55,124 total. 17,298 had 232 six cylinder engines (14,750 base, 2,548 SST). If you're looking to upgrade the drivetrain consider a 4.0L Jeep Cherokee/Wrangler six over a V-8. It's much easier to drop in if you're not scared of the wiring, and has about the same power as a stock 360 V-8. If you can find a two wheel drive Cherokee with auto trans you get the benefit of an overdrive transmission too! The stock transmission won't work with the newer six -- the bell housing bolt pattern changed in 1972, so only 71 and earlier six cylinder engines will bolt up to your transmission. There's a lot that can be done to the 232, so if you're looking for something a little spunkier but will still get good mileage just upgrade it. It really needs a new cam, as the factory cam is very mild. An "RV" or "towing" cam produces power in the lower rpm range, and is best for everyday driving. High rpm horsepower is really only good for bragging rights and racing, not everyday street driving! The factory 2V carb and a good turbo muffler and 2" exhaust system will work wonders if you have the 1V and factory type exhaust now. And get rid of the points! You don't need anything expensive or fancy, just order a Pertronix points replacement unit. It fits in your stock distributor and just needs a switched 12V wire added to make it work. Keep the points in the glove box as a back-up in case the Pertronix unit fails (rare!) -- you just pop them back in and go. chad chadwick wrote: > hi all i we just thinking i know that can be painful , here goes i'm > rebuilding a 68 javelin 6 cyl. i read that they made 56.000 give or > take a few ,how minny were 6 cyl and how minny were sold in CA. it's > just a thought chad > > -- > Be Yourself @ mail.com! > Choose From 200+ Email Addresses > Get a *Free* Account at www.mail.com <http://www.mail.com/Product.aspx>! -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html (free download available!) ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:13:36 -0400 From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [Amc-list] Rambler six comma fast To: AMC List <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <48A59D20.9000508@xxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Standard bore is indeed 3.875"! Most pubs round it up to 3.88", including Chrysler's/Jeep's. The metric specs are rounded to a single decimal -- 98.4mm x 87.4mm -- which comes out to 3.87401575" x 3.44094488", so you're correct in surmising the stroke is close to 3-7/16". 3.4375" is 87.3125 mm, so it's a bit larger than 3-7/16", but not 3-1/2" (88.9 mm). 3-31/64" seems to be about right in English fractional units... ------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:56:23 -0400 (EDT) From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker) I still wonder if the 4.0 isn't -really- 3 7/8" x 3 7/16" - 3.875" x 3.4375" -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html (free download available!) ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 12:01:29 -0400 From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx> Subject: [Amc-list] AMC six specs To: AMC List <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <48A5A859.8010107@xxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I just posted this on the In-Liners board in reference to how to identify AMC six displacement. Wanted to pass it on here since we had a specs discussion a day or two ago. I looked up the deck height in the TSMs, which may not be correct! -------------------------------- Modern AMC sixes/years: 199 - 3.75" bore, 3.00" stroke "short deck", 6.125" rod, 1966-1970 232 - 3.75" bore, 3.50" stroke "short deck", 5.875" rod, 1964-1970 "tall deck", 6.125" rod, 1971-1979 258 - 3.750" bore, 3.895" stroke "tall deck", 5.875" rod, 1971-89 242 (4.0L) - 3.875" bore, 3.440" stroke (note that most pubs round 3.875" to 3.88") "tall deck", 6.125" rod, 1987-2006 Only two deck heights. Tall deck is 9.528-9.534". There's a 1/8" difference between short and tall (half the rod length difference). Short should be 9.278-9.284". Tall is from a 74-76 AMC factory service manuals, prior to 74 deck height wasn't printed. Deck height changes slightly over the years - 77-82 states 9.487-9.493", 93 Jeep factory manual states 9.429-9.435". Don't know if the blocks actually vary over the years to alter compression or there are errors in the manuals. Note that two different bell housing sizes were used. 64-71 used the "small" diameter bell as used on prior AMC/Nash sixes. Starter is on the left hand side. 72-06 used a larger diameter bell, same bolt pattern as the AMC V-8. Six cylinder bells are roughly 6" deep, V-8 bells are roughly 8" deep. Use corresponding transmission with bell to swap. 71 and earlier also use a Borg Warner auto which uses the same crank flange as stick shift models. 72+ use a custom made Chrysler Torque Flite auto trans (AMC bell housing pattern is the only difference from Chrylser models). The stick shift flywheels interchange, but the Chrsyler flexplate will only bolt to 72+ cranks. The crank flange has an indentation that aligns the flexplate. Heads varied, but all mid 1980 and prior engines used a cast iron intake and exhaust that bolted together and 1/2" head bolts. Mid 1980 and later used an aluminum intake separate from the cast iron exhaust manifold and 7/16" head bolts through 1986. 1987 moved to a cast aluminum valve cover and back to 1/2" head bolts. Cranks are 12 counterweight through mid 1980 (corresponds with head bolt and manifold changes), four counterweight after. There doesn't appear to be any strength differences in the cranks, though the older crank is heavier. The only noted difference is the lighter crank can spin up slightly faster (we're talking milliseconds here!) and the heavier crank has more stall resistance due to greater rotating mass. Rock crawlers make good use of the heavy crank, but breakage reports are about the same for both. There's no way to look at any engine and tell what size it is except for the 4.0L -- it has no provision for a mechanical fuel pump. There is a code stamped on a flat on the block near the block/head parting line between cylinders #2 and #3 on the right side (spark plug side). The fourth character is the engine code. A - 199/1V, 70 A - 258/1V, 71-79 B - 258/1V low compression (Jeep only), 71-74 C - 258/2V, 76-89 E - 232/1V, 70-79 F - 232/1V low compression (Jeep only), 71-74 G - 232/2V, 70-74 J - 199/1V, 66-69 L - 232 (1V or 2V), 64-69 MX - 242 EFI (4.0L -- Jeep only), 87-06 note: may have just "M" The first character of the engine code is the year -- that's how you tell the 70 199 and 71-79 258 apart! From 1980 on the first character is the last digit of the year, and zero is used. Before then it's more complicated! The code started in 1959 with "1" used for 1959. Just count forward through 9, then skip zero and start over. So "1" could be 1959, 1968, or 1977. Knowing what engine sizes were built during a year and some engine details is necessary to decipher the code correctly. So code 108A15 could be a 68 199 or a 77 258. Check starter position. 68 would be on the left, 77 on the right. Clear as a bell, right?? Incidentally, the 2nd and 3rd characters are the month the engine was built, and the last two are the day of the month. -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html (free download available!) ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 09:37:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Joe Fulton <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [Amc-list] WAS: AMC six specs, NOW inliners To: "AMC/Rambler owners, drivers and fans." <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <941557.47323.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Frank I am pleased that you are posting to the inliners.org. Maybe you'll shine some light into the darkness of that group. My experience with members (including senior members of that group) at Bonneville has been that they are totally GM (chevy especially) guys. The car I have crewed on the last three years has a Buick straight 8 in a vintage class. We always get an invitation to their barbecue (partly I think because the car holds the record in its class). They don't really seem interested in the technology in the car even thought it is GM (originally, though highly modified). When I mention in conversation that I'm in to AMCs I just get a blank stare from the otherwise gregarious guy who issues the invitation every year. Most of those guys eat and sleep chevies and GMCs and dont' know or care that AMC ever existed. After all Nash just made R_a_m_b_l_e_r_s. There ARE many guys at Bonneville who are open minded will look for ways to go faster no matter who made the technology, but the inliners organization generally does not count many of those guys among its members. I have nothing against GM it's just that the inliners organization should probably be named Chevy/GMC Sixes or something of the sort. Joe Fulton Salinas, CA --- Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx> wrote: > I just posted this on the In-Liners board in > reference to how to > identify AMC six displacement. ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 13:08:45 -0400 (EDT) From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker) Subject: Re: [Amc-list] Rambler six comma fast To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx Message-ID: <200808151708.m7FH8j305046@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> " From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker) " " I still wonder if the 4.0 isn't -really- 3 7/8" x 3 7/16" - 3.875" x 3.4375" " " ------------ " From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx> " " Standard bore is indeed 3.875"! Most pubs round it up to 3.88", " including Chrysler's/Jeep's. The metric specs are rounded to a single " decimal -- 98.4mm x 87.4mm -- which comes out to 3.87401575" x " 3.44094488", so you're correct in surmising the stroke is close to " 3-7/16". 3.4375" is 87.3125 mm, so it's a bit larger than 3-7/16", " but not 3-1/2" (88.9 mm). 3-31/64" seems to be about right in English " fractional units... but suppose the stroke was rounded to 2 decimals -before- metric conversion? 3 7/16" -> 3.44" -> 87.4mm... ________________________________________________________________________ Andrew Hay the genius nature internet rambler is to see what all have seen adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:20:41 -0700 From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [Amc-list] Rambler six comma fast To: "AMC/Rambler owners, drivers and fans." <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <48A5BAE9.9090400@xxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Wrambler242@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote: > That's why I keep harping on the 4.0L block... > Big bore and short stroke. Yeah,it's clearly the smart choice for later blocks here. The ONLY reason I would consider the old-six pattern is to use this crazy block with it's diesel-thick cylinders and O-ringing. Frank Swygert wrote: > With an adapter you can use a Ford V-6 T-5. Yeah, that lovely Calif. Pony Car adapter! But is it wise to put gobs of horsepower in front of those antique little bellhousings? > If you use all the old head stuff whi is the wiser, cept us AMC guys! > The only external clue that is real visible is the lack of a fuel pump dr ive. > Should be a way to make it work out. And EFI is the way to go anyways. ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:25:53 -0700 (PDT) From: "Ross Guistino" <rossg@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: [Amc-list] Bottle Shock--AMC Content Involved To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx Message-ID: <4348.204.117.11.100.1218821153.squirrel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 A new movie is out about the wine industry called Bottle Shock. There is a pretty sweet yellow '74 Gremlin in it which has a prominent spot during the movie, driven by one of the stars--Alan Rickman. The poor Gremlin gets a kick in the tire by said star but that's the price you pay for being a star I guess. And oh, by the way, I was an extra in two different scenes. I was originally called to have my Gremlin in the movie and then they decided not to use mine but kept me on as one of the winery owners. Truth be told, I look like one of the farm hands in a red plaid shirt and a cowboy hat, but I'm not complaining. A fellow NorCal AMC Club member was also an extra and had his AMX with him too. I'm not sure if he made the film or ended up on the cutting room floor. You can see the trailer here: http://www.bottleshockthemovie.com/ If a trailer opens automatically, close it. A better one is located by clicking on the "trailer" bottle in the upper right of the page. Ross Guistino Rohnert Park, CA '73 Gremlin 304 aka Vivo '75 Gremlin X aka Greta ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:36:57 -0700 From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [Amc-list] WAS: AMC six specs, NOW inliners To: "AMC/Rambler owners, drivers and fans." <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <48A5BEB9.2070505@xxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Joe Fulton wrote: > Frank I am pleased that you are posting to the > inliners.org. Maybe you'll shine some light into the > darkness of that group. ... > I have nothing against GM it's just that the inliners > organization should probably be named Chevy/GMC Sixes > or something of the sort. Amen. It's too bad, I otherwise like the emphasis there on the unusual, on thought-out solutions not just store-bought, and sixes. The forum has some non-GM stuff but it's marginal. I get the newsletter etc, and like a lot of car stuff it's very very narrowly focused and the crowd is not very diverse. I'm not dis'n'em, it's their thing, and they welcome new people, but they're doing that one thing. I've been itching for something vaguely similar, where AMC is maybe just another brand on par with the rest, good points, bad points, but no or little Brand C or F! Last Saturday we had a going-away party for a friend moving to Mass. for a 1 year internship. We got wierdo-car quorum! Dr. Nick has four Tatras. Jason drives a Scimitar. Paul, old Citroens. Me, Ramblers of course. David -- drove to the party in his '67 Trabant! Paul, 24 Nash, 48 Indian (2 wheels), more. All driven (well, not Citroens, does anyone DRIVE those or just await parts?). Makes my cars look like as interesting as 6 cyl Chevy Novas in 1974. Mechanical skills vary from skilled artisan to can-change-points. Not a bad start. Ages and backgrounds and skills vary, another good sign. So we're gonna start a 'wierdo car club'. Jason and I have talked about it for a while, but didn't want it to be just armchair can fans, some internet webpage crap. Blessing of the Cars (now defunct) had a lot of 'none of the above' car nuts, and the 24 Hours of LeMons is too... where my '70 Hornet was (1) revered and (2) very many people knew what it was. Then there's http://jalopnik.com, who are personal friends of some of the above... Time is ripe... ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 10:59:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Joe Fulton <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [Amc-list] WAS: AMC six specs, NOW inliners To: "AMC/Rambler owners, drivers and fans." <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <510092.9613.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 This week is "auto week" here on the central coast with the Pebble Beach concourse this weekend and other shows/auctions in Monterey as well as the races at Laguna Seca. This morning on the way to work I saw a parade of mostly Italian sports cars headed for highway 156 and Monterey. I know there were several Alfa's but there were several I could not identify. I saw no Ramblers today, but yesterday there was a white 2-door 220 or 330, 1964 or 65 model in traffic. Nice paint. In other news, I'm finally sending the 73 Hornet to the scrapper this weekend and have resolved a personal conflict in my life so I will be able to complete the build of the 195.6 you saw on the engine stand and get that 64 Rambler back on the road this summer. --- Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx> wrote: Last Saturday we had a going-away party for a friend > moving to Mass. for > a 1 year internship. We got wierdo-car quorum! Here in the Bay Area you can see a real variety of wierdo cars on craigslist. I'd like to have more time, money and most of all space to spend some quality time with some of them. Joe Fulton ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:46:43 -0400 (EDT) From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker) Subject: Re: [Amc-list] Rambler six comma fast To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx Message-ID: <200808151846.m7FIkhn11849@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> " From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx> " " Frank Swygert wrote: " " > With an adapter you can use a Ford V-6 T-5. " " Yeah, that lovely Calif. Pony Car adapter! But is it wise to put gobs of " horsepower in front of those antique little bellhousings? vy gd point. a couple of years ago i chatted with a late-model mustang racer at the loudon scca regionals. he said he'd had some odd transmission failures that weren't cured until he ditched the stock aluminum bell for a steel mcleod scattershield/bell. his 500-600 hp engine was enough to make the stock bell flex! -- i might add that my 'mexican' bell is iron and about double the t96 bell weight. ________________________________________________________________________ Andrew Hay the genius nature internet rambler is to see what all have seen adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Amc-list mailing list Amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx http://splatter.wps.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/amc-list End of Amc-list Digest, Vol 20, Issue 27 **************************************** **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos. (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 ) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://splatter.wps.com/pipermail/amc-list/attachments/20080815/41880c89/attachment.htm _______________________________________________ Amc-list mailing list Amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx http://splatter.wps.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/amc-list