Re: [Amc-list] Hydrogen thoughts and replys

[Wrambler242@xxxxxxxxxxx]

I think we should agree to dissagree and move on.
I did a quick search or two on hydrogen from oil and see nothing that looks to point to it being a viable carrier of "clean" energy anytime soon. 
   The few web pages I found that even supported it admitted the process is flawed and produces CO2 and was a no win situation. Maybe years in the future.
 
   I only know enough to know I can't do anything to produce it safely and my orginal intend in replying was in response to the crakpots who push "waterpowered" cars and electrolysis as a means of powering them.

  I stand by my thought that we need to use many alternative energy means and that there is no one magic bullet.

   As for solar panels, I have a contact who has used cheapy Harbor frieght panels for quite some time and is well pleased with their output and cost. The newer technologies will be better producers, but the older technologies are now available to cheapskates too!!!

I'll try to refrain from posting to this subject again.

--
Mark Price
Morgantown, WV
1969 AMC Rambler, 4.0L, EFI, T-5
2004 Grand Cherokee Laredo, 4.7L, Quadratrc II
" Chronic Pain Hurts"

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: David Crooks <david.crooks@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> I'm lumping several replies together, as I use digest mode.  Hopefully I
> don't cause too much confusion with my edits!
> 
> > Your right bad information should not be spread...
> >
> > Explain how getting hydrogen out of oil is better?
> >
> I never said getting hydrogen out of oil was better,
> I said that was how it was done...
> 
> Currently, that's the cheapest, easiest way of producing it,
> so that's where it comes from.
> 
> On Solar Power:
> >
> > But petro-derived electric power is more costly -- you're burning the
> > furniture to heat the house.
> I agree, but most of the power generated around here (Ontario) is either
> nuclear or Hydro.  Coal and Petro account for 20-30%.  I really like the
> idea of solar power.  Who doesn't?  I've been watching the price of
> solar panels, and when they drop enough to have a reasonable pay
> back time, I'll buy them.  Their efficiencies are getting better, but so
> far, their prices have remained too high.  That's why they require
> subsidized buy back plans to make them worthwhile.
> 
> >  that the Arabs may cut their own economic throats when Western users
> > cut back on use as is going on right now and ever higher fuel prices  
> > drive a
> > public clamor for other energies.
> 
> Except that a lot of the current high oil prices have more to do with  
> Wall
> Street Commodity funds, rather than Opec.
> >
> >   I'll need to research cracking hydrogen from oil, yet that looks  
> > to put us
> > right back to deriving energy, albeit a "second party"- result, from  
> > a source
> > that depletes. Once you derive the hydrogen from the oil- I suppose  
> > the oil
> > still can be used for some purpose- but I can't see how you'd re- 
> > derive the
> > hydrogen from the oil. Also, what form (state- gas/fluid/solid ) is  
> > hydrogen
> > found other than "cracking" molecules?
> In the olden times (ie >70 years ago), oil was refined by simple  
> distillation
> techniques.  In this manner light products, like gasoline, were  
> separated
> from intermediate products, like diesel, and heavy products, like
> bunker C fuel oil.  Modern refineries use catalytic cracking  
> techniques to
> break the large hydrocarbon molecules of crude oil into whatever  
> chemical
> they want.  But there are no freebies!  If you crack everything to  
> gasoline,
> you get no diesel...
> 
> The fact that most Hydrogen comes from oil, was exactly the point I was
> making.  You're NOT moving away from oil, by moving to Hydrogen.  You  
> are
> much much cleaner (which is a good thing!), but you're still relying  
> on oil.
> 
> Things like Ethanol and Bio-Diesel, help move away from oil, but they  
> don't
> completely address CO2 emissions, and global warming.
> 
> And then there's the whole debate about food vs fuel.  Is it better to  
> use
> corn/soy crops for ethanol/diesel or to feed people?
> 
> It's a new world out there...
> 
> Dave
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