[Amc-list] Re; 79 AMX Frame Front

["John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>]

Gary
 
SNIP
the frame frame rail shows advanced 
rust, the shock tower has rusted away.
It has been suggested to install a mustang
front clip,or go to tubular.  does 
anyone have info on a solution to the problem.
I really do not want to scrap the car out
Garry 
SNIP
John Elle can tell you how to restore it!
SNIP
Gary, there is no Mustang II kit that will easily fit the Concord body. 
If you look close you'll see that the existing suspension is very close 
to the MII design, except the springs are mounted high.
I see your problem though! If the spring tower is rusted away, you only 
have two choices -- replace it with a good one or cut it all out and go 
with a tubular front frame section. Finding a replacement would be easy 
enough -- any Hornet, Gremlin, Concord, Spirit, or even Eagle should 
have everything you need. You'd need to do a bit of trimming around the 
front, maybe splice the front edge of the old car to the new, but that's

not much work.
Frank Swygert
SNIP
 
The answer to your question is neither simple nor short as there is 
quite a bit of information in your question that is not included. 
Of significance, is some indication of your capabilities to tackle a
repair
of this nature, also what qualifications were had from those who
suggested to either tube it or install a Mustang front clip suspension. 
If no qualifications, than at the risk of offending some one
un-intentionally
it can be done, I've done this repair! But it is neither easy or simple,
nor depending on a number of factors, cheap!
 
To a certain extent I will answer this e-mail on the AMX files and
complete
it by sending to you directly with pictures to back it up with. If
anyone wants 
a more complete answer too I can accommodate that. 
 
First of all, if the rust damage you are describing is anywhere near
correct 
and having no idea geographically where you are located I will make the 
assumption that you have no clue how much damage has been caused 
by the rust. I will not be surprised that both frame rails are rusted 
completely through where the lower control arm and the engine mount 
cross member are bolted on to the car. Through to the point where you
can pass your hand through into the interior of the frame rail in up to 
two different directions on both rails and they have begun to flex
outwards 
from the bottom causing the suspension to sag and come up with weird
camber figures on the front wheels. Along with the rusted out spring 
tower the inner fender wells have possibly started to stretch and buckle
and even split as they pick up the stress of holding the front of the
car
together. This damage will progress pack under the floor boards and into

the foot well for the rear passenger compartment causing structural 
problems at the rocker panels and in and around the transmission hump. 
There will be further damage towards the back of the car but that can 
be addressed at a different time. You may even see stress cracks on 
the frame rails where the strut rod mounts are mounted on to them
on the flat part that extends down wards on the bottom as the 
curve under the floor boards. 
This now identifies the area of the problems that you will want to
resolve. 
 
Mustang II Front Clip. Despite what Frank says and having no idea what
your recommended solutions were what you want in this are is the system 
that uses both an upper and lower control arm in the shape of an "A" if 
you will, rather than the upper arm being an A and the lower one
resembling
the AMC Strut rod configuration which is what Frank is referring too as 
being similar to the AMC component, and he is right with that
assumption. 
What is wrong is that won't work you must have the better configuration 
and probably that is what most people refer to!  An independent front 
suspension of this configuration can be seen at the following web sites.

http://www.jimmeyerracing.com/
http://www.southernrods.com/
http://www.classicperform.com/
http://www.martzchassis.net/
http://www.fatmanfab.com/
 
However Frank is correct that no one makes a package for AMC
applications
so it would have to be custom made. Prices on this would be in the
$2000.00
range and up. As you did not establish a budget, but you mentioned this 
part, than this part now establishes a budget, to start with, 'cause it
will get 
more expensive as you go on. 
 
Also when obtained you have no place to install it, as the installation
point is
all rusted out! It will not do you much good un-less you rebuild the
front of the
car. Of course if you have a BFHammer, and a torch and some welding 
knowledge and tube cutting and fitting capability, also not mentioned,
the 
concept of purchasing a tube front clip and installing same could be
done, but 
as no one makes one of these either, it would have to be purchased,
fabbed
and then modified to fit using what ever is left of the rusted sheet
metal of 
your car. Estimate another 2 or 3 grand for this endeavor so now the
budget is
up to 5 Grand or so and we don't even know if you can weld or have the 
equipment. If you find the inference offence, I am sorry you did not
state your
skill and offensive is not intentional. 
 
As to the work involved, it is work! A lot of it and may be an area you
have 
never gone to before. My car when done, is driven and shown. A butcher 
job is not on my list of things to do. 
 
There is however another solution you can use. You can front clip your 
1979 AMX., So far your budget is about 2 grand at a minimum. You will 
need a front clip. One that is not rusted. What will work directly on
your 
1979 AMX is a front clip from a 1979 + Spirit, Concord 4door, Concord 
wagon or a Concord 2DSD. There is probably is nothing that is
salvageable
off of the front of your AMX to allow you to piece part stuff into it,
'sides 
you have to weld to do it. 
How is your welding skills?
Anything from a non-safety bumper car such as a Hornet or Gremlin will 
not work from the suspension forward as there is no provisions to mount
the shock mounts for the safety bumper. Although from the suspension 
back things will work.
But if things are that rusted on your AMX than parts cars for donor cars
are not any better. 
So! 
You take part of your budget and you buy a running or rolling Concord 
or what ever from a South West state that you find one advertised for 
sale in. That should cost about $500 or so to buy the car then between 
$700 and a grand to ship it to your home. 
There goes up to $1500 of your budget. Notice it is cheaper than
purchasing 
a Mustang Front Clip! 
Then purchase $50.00 worth of spot weld drills and start disassembling 
the front of the Donor car until you have an available front clip ready
to 
put back on. A small flat crow bar is useful too in order to pry body 
panels apart. 
A 4 inch grinder is handy, a chop grinder air powered is handy, as 
is a 2# Hammer and lots of air operated tools. No Air?, Add it to your 
budget! Remember you have to paint this thing too! 
We should be pushing $2000.00 fairly easy now and you have not 
even got things together yet or completely apart. 
But now you have the donor car for parts and the tools to make it
happen. 
All it takes now is time and some skill in welding. 
Never welded before?
Well neither did I when I tried the same thing. But with a bottom end 
Lincoln wire feed and some practice it all went back together, and 
the week it was done it was driven 1000 miles round trip and placed 
3rd in class at a MOPAR show. 
I only set the car on fire about 6 times in the process. 
Remember! The grinder is your friend! 
And so is a squirt bottle full of water! 
More to follow directly to Gary, if he is interested and to any one 
else too. 
But I disagree here with Frank. It is a lot of work and it is not cheap
but if you like the car enough it is worth it to do it. It was for me.
The really tricky part will be getting it welded back together so 
that the car goes straight down the road rather than Cattywumpus! 
The big expense would be in purchasing a Rust Free Donor Car 
and getting it shipped to you and purchasing tools you do not 
have. $2000.00 may be close to what you will be able to get 
away with. Initially anyway. 
If this sounds beyond your capabilities and desires, go back to the 
Mustang front clip idea, buy a late model one, but make sure the
Mustang is still attached to it and install your 343 in a Mustang!
Later and good luck 
John. 
Rust is insidious!!!!!
 
 
 
 
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