Re: [Amc-list] Front suspension/shocks (was Gabriel "Classic" shocks...)

["Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM" <Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

1.       When I changed shock types to the bar style I still used the
spacer and torqued the spacer bolt properly. The pressure from the shock
isn't directly on the spacer, but the shock was still more or less
centered over the spacer, so the forces were in the same plane. The only
slight problem is the holes in the narrow horizontal edges of the arms
weaken them slightly, but not enough to be of concern, obviously. I
drove it daily for a couple years like that - as a 18 year old not easy
on a car!! The shock doesn't carry the weight of the car anyway, just
dampens movement. 

2.       No, not 63 10/80 upper arms in the lower position of the 63 01,
58-61 10/80 lower arms in place of 58-63 01 lower arms. The inner
bushings are different, but the arm itself is the same. I replaced 63 01
arms with junkyard 58 10 arms years ago. I'm not sure about the upper
arms interchanging - they might, but of course the trunnions are
different in the American, even the old 58-63 trunnion (which is
different from 64-69 trunnions). 

3.       The trunnion caps are obviously machined, but I don't think
they are heat treated. The caps wear out way the studs do, and the
threaded hole for the steering knuckle in the trunnion wears out before
the steering knuckle threads do. In any case, welding two different
hardness steels won't affect much - the weld material itself will be
harder than either. You can destroy the hardening of a heat
treated/hardened steel when welding unless a lot of care is taken when
cooling. I welded one set of lower trunnions to fix the arms and drove
the car for years with no problems. I don't think the caps are heat
treated at all, but may be of a harder type of steel than the arms. As
long as the caps are greased turning on the trunnion studs there's no
extra strain on them anyway. Penetration isn't enough to affect the
threads, only about 1/16" weld penetration at best. Get the weld hot
enough to penetrate more and you'd burn through the control arms. I
welded because I couldn't find four new control arms, and didn't know
the arms were worn bad enough they needed replacing until the suspension
was in pieces and I had three days to fix it. At the time my 63 American
was my second car! Finances and the fact that I was USAF and had to move
every few years dictated that any AMC I had would have to be a driver,
not just a show or collector car. Some military people do move an extra
show/collector car around after they get a little higher in rank, but
it's costly and comes out of your own pocket. Gov't will move two
vehicles in the US, only one overseas. 

---------------------------

Date: Sunday, May 6, 2007 12:07 PM
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
<mailto:tomj@xxxxxxx?subject=Re:%20%5bAmc-list%5d%20:%20%20Gabriel%20%22
Classic%22%20shocks...> 

On Sun, 6 May 2007, farna@xxxxxxx <mailto:farna@xxxxxxx>  wrote:
 
> I used a bar end shock for a while. The problem is the
> stamped steel lower arms on a 50-61 Classic and 50-63 Nash
> Rambler/American aren't very wide. You can barely srill a 1/4"
> hole in the top of the arm flange to bole the shock to it. It
> works using grade 8 bolts, but just so.
 
You're more adventurous than me! I'm pretty conservative
when it comes to design margins and such. The shock would
induce twisting forces in a part not designed for that, and
it's already pushing half a century old.
 
> The bottom eye is larger than a normal shock. It has a 1"
> diameter two piece spacer (half slipe in the eye from each side)
> with a 3/8" hole through it. The bolt goes through the arms and
> spacer, squeezing the spacer between the arms and stabilizing
> the arms.
 
And the tension in those spacers ensures that the forces impinged
on the lower arm by the shock are transmitted vertically to
the lower arm, which is what it's designed for. The TSM warns
loudly that torque on that big bolt is critical.
 
 
> > If the trunnion cap holes in the arms are badly worn and
> no replacements can be found (big car arms will interchange
> if you change the inner rubber bushing though!),
 
 
Wow, 63 10 and 63 80 upper control arms fit in the 63 01 lower
arm position? That's very convenient! (After staring at the 01
suspension for a while it sure looks like there could have been
more parts commonality in the trunnion system; the 01 lower
trunnion is basically the same as the 10/80 upper, and with a
fabricated cap, the 10/80 upper part could have been used.)
 
> the trunnion
> caps can be welded in after the unit is assembled. The problem
> with that is the same -- in order to replace the trunnion or
> bushings one of the arms must be cut and replaced.
 
The only circumstance I would weld machined/heat treated
suspension parts to stamped/cold-rolled suspension parts is in
a gotta-get-home-road-trip-emergency basis, and then I'd replace
averything and throw the old ones in the trash. You know a hell
of a lot more about welding than I do (which is nearly nothing)
but I'd be afraid of subtle tweaked relationships in antique
car parts.
 
Then again for cars driven 1000 miles a year pretty much anything
goes (I know you, like me, drive yours lots more).

 

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