Re: [AMC-List] 258 6cyl swap into 63american convertible

["Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

A: Just a little more here: The 250 is NOT the same size (length) as a 200 
(it may still fit though) as it is based on the 300 and earlier 240. (Found 
this out when I went to put power steering on my 170 which IS the same as 
the 200) I don't know when they changed the 200 bell to fit the same as V8, 
but I used an '80 something Ford Fairmont 200 C4 auto bellhousing to mount 
my 170 in place of a 300 in my '75 F150 van. The 170 was replaced with a 
factory new 200 about 5 years later (lifter collapsed and a rocker canted, 
knocking the valve spring loose from it's keepers and dropping a valve 
through the piston) but it didn't have nearly as much power as the 170 
(which came from a '72 Mercury Comet)
   The AMC 4.0L is much shorter in front than the 258/232 and MAY fit in 
there.


From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
	<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 258 6cyl swap into 63american
convertible
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, <redamc1963@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:

<4CC05BF0CC3F114281434B00B733E2A325A8EB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

I'm afraid Andrew is 100% on this one! This subject has gone
around on
the list a time or two before, I think Andrew and I have it all
worked
out! The ONLY options for a more modern and/or larger powerplant
is the
Ford 200/250 six. The AMC later six is just to long -- it's
about three
inches longer than the 196 -- just the block, not including the
fan and
water pump. You can only squeeze about another inch out of the
58-63
American (and 50-55 Nash Rambler) engine compartment. I know of
one 258
installed in a 61-63 -- it required removing the heater and
setting the
engine back into the firewall.

The 200 or 250 Ford will fit. They are both the same length,
very close
to the length of the 196. The 250 is a tall deck 200 (1.7"
taller deck,
0.78" longer stroke). You can find more info on these at
http://www.fordsix.com/. The only drawback is you're limited in
he
carburetion department. They have the intake cast into the head,
but no
removable plate like the 196. This isn't a big problem -- the
200 has
about the same power as the 196 stock (1969: 120hp @ 4400, 190#
@ 2400),
the 250 a good bit more (1969: 155hp @ 4000, 240# @ 1600). The
250 is
actually a good choice, and was used into the mid 80s. The SBF
trans
pattern is used, but you can't use an SBF flexplate or flywheel
due to
balance (balanced to the V-8, like AMC V-8s). You can, however,
use a
Ford 300 six flexplate/flywheel (I think the 300 also uses the
SBF trans
pattern -- the 300 is to long for the engine bay as well, so
don't get
that idea!). You can use a 300 trans setup and get a five speed.

You will simply have to alter the engine bay to fit any V-8 or
90 degree
V-6. Pick up a current issue of Hot Rod. There's a 61  American
wagon
with a SBC in it that looks near stock under the engine bay.
Well,
that's because the guy hand formed new inner fender panels to
look stock
but still fit the engine!

You CAN put a V-8 in with minimal cutting. The only thing that
needs to
come out is the "humps" just above the upper A arm mounting
points. The
humps are left-overs from the 1950-53(?) front suspension
design. A rod
used to go up to the apex (where there should be a small hole)
and
extend down to the upper shock mount for support. The upper
shock mount
was redesigned around 54 and the rod eliminated, but the
stamping was
never changed.

I've assisted with this, but didn't see the finished project --
don't
know how the exhaust ended up. With an SBC it's hard to get to
the plugs
-- the engine will need to be jacked up or access holes cut into
the
inner fender panels at just the right location. Then you take
the tires
off and use a long extension. This can be done and look neat. I
saw one
with 2-1/2" plastic plugs along the side for sparker access. One
solution to the exhaust is to mount the manifolds backwards
(swap left
to right) and curve the pipes back from the front. I saw one in
a
magazine (a 1950's "Speed Mechanics" -- might have been the
first V-8
small Rambler ever!) that did this.

Forget headers, unless you use "over the rail" types for an
early Nova
and cut holes in the inner fender panels near the firewall for
them to
exit. There was a 61-63 drag car built over the last couple
years that
uses that method (I have photos -- used in an AIM article).
Block
huggers MIGHT work, but I think the center exit will interfere
with the
steering box or shaft on the left side.

Another possibility is the 60 degree V-6s, Ford or Chevy (I
think all
the Chrysler V-6s are 90 degree?). The only problem is you'd
have to use
hot rod style accessory brackets. I looked at a Ford 2.9L in a
Bronco II
as a candidate once, and a 2.8L in an S-10. Both mount the
accessories
way off to the side of the engine, making it a wide
installation. This
can be corrected, but may take some custom brackets. I think
there are
aftermarket brackets for the GMs though.

I looked into four cylinders. The only one narrow enough to fit
without
major engine bay mods is an early 2.3L Ford. Later ones, and all
other
modern fours I could find (around 1994-95, when I was seriously
considering repowering my 63 American), had intakes that stuck
out to
far to the left. It is still possible to use one, like the Jeep
2.5L
from a Wrangler or Cherokee, but the left hump will need to come
off. At
least there's clearance on the right side though.

How it looks depends on how you finish off the inner fender
panels after
the hump is cut off. A flat piece of sheet metal is usually
welded in.
Grind the welds smooth and paint and it could look neat if not
near
stock. Put a vertical ridge or bead in it through the center and
it will
look stock. That's what the guy in the current hot rod magazine
did, and
I can assure you it looks stock enough I did a double-take -- I
know the
V-8 won't fit without removing those humps! Had to read to see
what he
did. It's very admirable work, even if it does have a Chevy
engine! The
only thing that would make it better is if it had a 250 or 290
AMC
V-8... though I'm sure most would go larger. I only mention the
250
because it was made at the time (last year was 61), and could
have
been...

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