Send AMC-List mailing list submissions to amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to amc-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx You can reach the person managing the list at amc-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxx When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of AMC-List digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: 68 Rebel Convertible Questions (farna@xxxxxxx) 2. FOR SALE: 1969 AMX 500 Special One of 32 - $15000 (Santa Rosa, CA) (Archimedes) 3. 390 Flywheel - Stick or Auto? (Clifton Danley) 4. Re: 68 Rebel Convertible Questions (Matt Haas) 5. Re: 390 Flywheel - Stick or Auto? (Widiker, John D) 6. new car, new ideas (Jim Blair) 7. Re: t5 or tko (Sandwich Maker) 8. Re: AMC-List Digest, Vol 12, Issue 23 (Jim Boone) 9. 3 groove 3 bolt pully (Gary L. Kirk) 10. Gas Tanks and Fuel Level Senders (Nolanatcamelot@xxxxxxx) 11. Re: 3 bolt vs 4 bolt (John Elle) 12. Re; Gas tanks and fuel level senders (John Elle) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:53:20 +0000 From: farna@xxxxxxx Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 68 Rebel Convertible Questions To: john.eckersley@xxxxxxxxx, mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx (AMC-List) Message-ID: <011520071353.1974.45AB8750000669C3000007B621603762230E029D0E00@xxxxxxx> 1. Speedo needle: More than likely it's just a bad cable. Make sure there are no kinks or tight bends in the housing first. Then disconnect the cable at one end and pull it out. Inspect closely. If it looks good, put a light grease (spray can white lithium) or oil on it and reinsert. If that doesn't at least help consider getting a new complete cable before condemning the speedo head. Cheaper, easier to find, and is most likely the problem. AMC vendors such as APP (www.amclives.com) can help, but it should still be available. Check specialty speedo shops too. If it's the head you'll need one of those guys to fix it, or buy a used replacement. 2. The shimmy is most likely caused by worn bushings. The strut rod bushings are the most likely culprit, but you need to chekc all the bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends, and idler arm bushing. If you just want to throw parts at it the idler arm bushing should be replaced first, the strut rod bushings second -- unless the strut rod bushings are obviously bad, then them first. --------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:48:45 +0000 From: John Eckersley <john.eckersley@xxxxxxxxx> Pretty new to AMC, but not to old cars. I recently bought a 68 Rebel convertible. We were blessed with fine weather at the weekend so I took it out for a drive. I have a couple of faults/niggles and if anyone on here has advice/experience, I'd be glad to hear it: The Speedo needle dances around all over the place - at about 60 MPH it is flicking wildly between 15 and 90. The odometer works fine (at least it turns round and I reckon the numbers are about right for the miles I covered). Logic suggests to me it's the speedo head at fault but my ex-wife's logic always seemed somehow different..... BTW I have bought a little gizmo that measures speed very accurately using GPS signals - but I need to repair the "proper" speedo. The other thing is a sort of shimmy that shakes the whole car as I pass through about 40mph. It seems to be coming from the front end. If anyone's experienced this I'd be glad to hear about it..... Thanks John E -- Frank Swygert Publisher, "American Motors Cars" Magazine (AMC) For all AMC enthusiasts http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html (free download available!) ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 10:08:30 -0500 From: Archimedes <Freedom@xxxxxxxx> Subject: [AMC-List] FOR SALE: 1969 AMX 500 Special One of 32 - $15000 (Santa Rosa, CA) To: (Recipient list suppressed) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20070114100056.01c0d880@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Rare and all... but $15k? Has everyone gone nuts just because a Mopar fetched over a million? Leather seats... AC... Radio appears to be gone... ************************************************** 1969 AMX 500 Special One of 32 Reply to: <mailto:sale-261443961@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx?Subject=69_AMX> Date: 2007-01-12, 5:15AM 69 AMC AMX 500 Special, one of 32 built for Southern Calif. AMC dealers, and used to promote racing. Car needs restoration, been in storage (inside) for over 20+ years, still there, car does NOT RUN,. Car was Big Bad Green, with tan interior, as all 500 Specials where, has been repainted the wrong color, VERY RARE AMX, Picture on cover of AMX book is what car should look like when resoted, call Dave @ (707) 588-8588, will consider trade plus cash, no motorcycles or rice rockets, have no interest in them, will trade for a project Mopar, Mustang, GTX, Fairlane, Galaxie, Road Runner, GTO, Muscle Car, Hot Rod, Original URL: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/car/261443961.html ************************************************** -- Marc ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 10:18:39 -0500 From: "Clifton Danley" <am401@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [AMC-List] 390 Flywheel - Stick or Auto? To: "Allan Kremkau" <akrc2986@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Bill Burkett" <bbamx@xxxxxxx>, "Bob Hodson" <rhodsonscrambler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Bob Weidner" <weedhopper2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Carson Slabaugh" <csracing2582@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "Cliff Danley" <am401@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "Craig Allebaugh" <craiga53@xxxxxxxxxx>, "Cyrus Dossabhoy" <dosshrzn@xxxxxxx>, "Dave Basa" <amx@xxxxxxxx>, "David & Judy Thomas" <cj7scrambler@xxxxxxxxx>, "Devon Cole" <djcole01@xxxxxxxxx>, "Dolph Follansbee" <bluejav71@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Doug Noland" <xler8rdoug@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "Frank Spadaro" <rotorboy24@xxxxxxx>, "George Koufas" <a3604@xxxxxxx>, "George Matt" <hornet1954@xxxxxxxx>, "Hal Floyd" <hfloyd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Hal Gunner" <hgunner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Harold Lengel" <halnell@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Ira Barrett" <inspectorbear@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "Jay Cannaday" <jcnspots@xxxxxxx>, "Jay Ciampi" <jciampi@xxxxxxxx>, "JD Bare" <pow32159@xxxxxxx>, "Jeff Puras" <amx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Jim Boone" <fljab@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "Joe DeSalvo" <joe.desalvo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Joe Swick" <lthom49086@xxxxxxx>, "John Garza" <amx1148@xxxxxxx>, "John Morris" <fatboyman05@xxxxxxx>, "Jonathan Williams" <dwcbsurf@xxxxxxxxxx>, "Dana/Kathy Peters" <kathykathy10@xxxxxxx>, "Lars Mende" <nitrojeep383@xxxxxx>, "Lee Fordham" <leepg@xxxxxxxx>, "Louie Lanthrip" <lanthrip@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Mark Ledman" <ledmanamx@xxxxxxx>, "Mark Shuford" <amarkpri@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Michael Sanfilippo" <michael.sanfilippo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Michael Watts" <moparx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Mike Bisogno" <gransportman@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "Mike Martinoff" <mmartinoff@xxxxxxx>, "Mike Slabaugh" <a69amx@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "Mike Therber" <spirit417@xxxxxxx>, "Noel Dana" <noeldana@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Patty Snead" <pat68amx@xxxxxxx>, "Paul Pittman" <pdpittman@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Paul Shuler" <edwardshuler@xxxxxxxxx>, "Pete Harrison" <knotwork@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Ray Pinto" <cherokee49@xxxxxxxxxx>, "Rick Martines" <rick@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Rick Pittman" <datcat22@xxxxxxxxx>, "Robert Grybosh" <tybigsis24@xxxxxxx>, "Roger Ward" <amxward@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Russ Talley" <flingwingxrt@xxxxxxx>, "Scott Weingeroff" <sweingeroff@xxxxxxxx>, "Steve Berg" <amx78@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "Todd Weingeroff" <kamikazi02@xxxxxxx>, "Vernon Ramey" <patramey@xxxxxxx>, "Wayne Feindt" <lucky70@xxxxxxx> Cc: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx Message-ID: <000601c737ef$4a7c25b0$6401a8c0@cliff> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Can someone explain to me the difference between an auto trans flexplate and a manual trans flywheel? How to tell the difference? The one in question is from a 1970 390. Cliff Danley ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:15:56 -0500 From: Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 68 Rebel Convertible Questions To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx Message-ID: <45AB8C9C.2000607@xxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I'd try the speedometer cable first to fix the needle problem. My 68 American had that exact same problem when I got it and it was solved with a new cable. Your shimmy may be nothing more than out of balance (or bad) tires. Drums can also be out of balance but that's not as common, you can check for this by looking at the lip around the outside edge of the drum to see if there's a spot where a weight used to be. Bad shocks can also contribute to this and will make vibration from out of balance tires and drums more noticeable. Matt farna@xxxxxxx wrote: > 1. Speedo needle: More than likely it's just a bad cable. Make sure there are no kinks or tight bends in the housing first. Then disconnect the cable at one end and pull it out. Inspect closely. If it looks good, put a light grease (spray can white lithium) or oil on it and reinsert. If that doesn't at least help consider getting a new complete cable before condemning the speedo head. Cheaper, easier to find, and is most likely the problem. AMC vendors such as APP (www.amclives.com) can help, but it should still be available. Check specialty speedo shops too. If it's the head you'll need one of those guys to fix it, or buy a used replacement. > > 2. The shimmy is most likely caused by worn bushings. The strut rod bushings are the most likely culprit, but you need to chekc all the bushings, ball joints, tie rod ends, and idler arm bushing. If you just want to throw parts at it the idler arm bushing should be replaced first, the strut rod bushings second -- unless the strut rod bushings are obviously bad, then them first. > > --------------------- > Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:48:45 +0000 > From: John Eckersley <john.eckersley@xxxxxxxxx> > > Pretty new to AMC, but not to old cars. I recently bought a 68 Rebel > convertible. We were blessed with fine weather at the weekend so I took > it out for a drive. I have a couple of faults/niggles and if anyone on > here has advice/experience, I'd be glad to hear it: > > The Speedo needle dances around all over the place - at about 60 MPH it > is flicking wildly between 15 and 90. The odometer works fine (at least > it turns round and I reckon the numbers are about right for the miles I > covered). Logic suggests to me it's the speedo head at fault but my > ex-wife's logic always seemed somehow different..... > > BTW I have bought a little gizmo that measures speed very accurately > using GPS signals - but I need to repair the "proper" speedo. > > The other thing is a sort of shimmy that shakes the whole car as I pass > through about 40mph. It seems to be coming from the front end. If > anyone's experienced this I'd be glad to hear about it..... > > Thanks > > John E > > -- > Frank Swygert > Publisher, "American Motors Cars" > Magazine (AMC) > For all AMC enthusiasts > http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html > (free download available!) -- mhaas@xxxxxxx Cincinnati, OH http://www.mattsoldcars.com 1967 Rambler American wagon 1968 Rambler American sedan =============================================================== According to a February survey of Internet holdouts released by UCLA's Center for Communication Policy, people cite not having a computer as the No. 1 reason they won't go online. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:45:41 -0500 From: "Widiker, John D" <john.widiker@xxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 390 Flywheel - Stick or Auto? To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Clifton Danley" <am401@xxxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <053E34168692C4438533FE33E79C1A18439188@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" can you lift it with 1 finger? If so it's an auto, if not it's a manual. Here are links to examples: http://mkiiitech.com/forsale/gteflexplate.jpg <---- auto flywheel (flexplate) LIGHT http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/online/images/6375-1.jpg <---- manual flywheel HEAVY ~John -----Original Message----- From: amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx [mailto:amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Clifton Danley Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 10:19 AM To: Allan Kremkau; Bill Burkett; Bob Hodson; Bob Weidner; Carson Slabaugh; Cliff Danley; Craig Allebaugh; Cyrus Dossabhoy; Dave Basa; David & Judy Thomas; Devon Cole; Dolph Follansbee; Doug Noland; Frank Spadaro; George Koufas; George Matt; Hal Floyd; Hal Gunner; Harold Lengel; Ira Barrett; Jay Cannaday; Jay Ciampi; JD Bare; Jeff Puras; Jim Boone; Joe DeSalvo; Joe Swick; John Garza; John Morris; Jonathan Williams; Dana/Kathy Peters; Lars Mende; Lee Fordham; Louie Lanthrip; Mark Ledman; Mark Shuford; Michael Sanfilippo; Michael Watts; Mike Bisogno; Mike Martinoff; Mike Slabaugh; Mike Therber; Noel Dana; Patty Snead; Paul Pittman; Paul Shuler; Pete Harrison; Ray Pinto; Rick Martines; Rick Pittman; Robert Grybosh; Roger Ward; Russ Talley; Scott Weingeroff; Steve Berg; Todd Weingeroff; Vernon Ramey; Wayne Feindt Cc: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [AMC-List] 390 Flywheel - Stick or Auto? Can someone explain to me the difference between an auto trans flexplate and a manual trans flywheel? How to tell the difference? The one in question is from a 1970 390. Cliff Danley _______________________________________________ AMC-List mailing list AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list or go to http://www.amc-list.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 07:54:13 -0800 From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: [AMC-List] new car, new ideas To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx Message-ID: <BAY114-F319C4358AB2793EA7A0F7BACB50@xxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed My buddy and I have worked out a deal and he now has an '81 Wagoneer and I will be getting his '82 Spirit (since it doesn't do well in snow and he has lots of it) Last night I overhauled the BBD (non computerized) carb on the Wag's 258 and it's running much better but still sputters and misses (next is changing filters and plugs/basic tuneup) but at least he can drive it to work w/o being scared of every ditch. My plan for the Spirit (I keep trying to call it an AMX because it reminds me of the '77 I had to part for the motor to go into my '73 J4000) is to put EFI on the 258 and a lockup 727 trans (pretty basic to this point but now it gets "different") then put a Dana 20 tcase on the IH 727 (off an AMC 6 rig) and flip it to the driver's side. Top that off with an AMC Eagle front axle and sub frame and Jeep XJ rear axle (I have a 3.07 geared pair) I'll have to mod the floor a bit on the driver's side, but not nearly as much as for the regular tcase used in Eagles. Oh, I forgot to mention that I'll be putting my front lift design I made for the last Eagle I had in and lowering the trans slightly as well which should give me more clearance. That's today's silly thought anyways. (I already have the complete HO EFI system to put in) It'll all change though if I score an XJ 4 speed auto from a 2wd! _________________________________________________________________ Communicate instantly! Use your Hotmail address to sign into Windows Live Messenger now. http://get.live.com/messenger/overview ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 11:52:58 -0500 (EST) From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker) Subject: Re: [AMC-List] t5 or tko To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx Message-ID: <200701151652.l0FGqw717818@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> " From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx> " " TKO is stronger taller and bigger. " The few that have gone into javelins required floor surgery, big time. " You can use the front shifter location with an aftermarket kit. " T5 can be built to handle 330ftlb for $1000.00 or less if you do it yourself. ford svt 7003z are already built for 330 ft-lbs, and i've seen them for $1000-1100 new. " To get the shifter forward you need to use an S10 tailhousing. and while you have it apart you might want to put the 5speeds.com cluster stabilizer in, and maybe the warner aftermkt 0.80 5th too. the stock 0.68-0.63 5th is just about tall enough to make a good -6th-! it made sense for detroit seeking mileage ratings... " Do some online searchs about both these trans as behind a 304 it " really is going to be a personal choice. the T-5 trans built to 330 " ftlb spec will hold up fine. " The bolt pattern on the TKO is Ford toploader IIRC, not T-5. afaik the tko -is- a toploader. tremec took ford's toploader over in the mid '70s and this 5sp evolved from it. our t150 is a tremec-built ford t150 3sp toploader. [there was also a hd t160 3sp] fords 4sp were in the 170s - t172 etc - and the jeep t176 is a family member. ford racers wanting deep gears use jeep guts! the tko 500 may have a c6 output spline, but otherwise it and the ford t5s have the same splines, pilot, retainer size, and ~24" length as the t150 3sp. ________________________________________________________________________ Andrew Hay the genius nature internet rambler is to see what all have seen adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 13:50:25 -0500 From: "Jim Boone" <fljab@xxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AMC-List Digest, Vol 12, Issue 23 To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx Message-ID: <BAY116-F2726DB0029E88C8E58E8BCACB50@xxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx> >Subject: [AMC-List] 3 bolt vs 4 bolt >Jim >According to the '70 TSM the belt that drove the A/C was the same belt >that also drove > The power steering pump, or if not used, an idler was installed in the >same location a >power steering pump would be installed. Thus there were only two belts >on the harmonic >balancer pulleys, thus needing only two pulleys. >There is also an idler installed on the back side of the belt between >the harmonic >balancer pulleys and the A/C compressor. > >Your need now would depend on where the A/C compressor you want to >install lines up >on the crank shaft. If it came from a later car/application you may need >the 3rd pulley. If >so I think there is no problem in doing a 390 vs 401 harmonic balancer, >but would have >check on that as I do not know when 4 bolt harmonic balancers were first >used and if >they are balanced correctly for a 390 <snip> By running off the PS pump, that would put the compressor on the driver's side, yes? I've been collecting AC brackets, and even bought a complete, NOS, "Mount up and Drive" kit that AMC sent to the dealers to use when it would be a dealer add-on. All the parts that I have are for the later set-ups, and I believe put it on the passenger side with the 3rd groove/belt. Putting it off the PS pump for '70 models would mean (I'm asking): >Using a double or single groove pulley on the PS pump? >Driver's side AC mount? As far as balance 390 vs 401 I don't know either, but I'm guessing that as part of a rebuild, I could take a 401 OEM or aftermarket balancer and have it balanced (along with flywheel) to my 390, yes? This is for my "Hot Rod Rambler" project, the '69 Rambler Sedan which now has a '70 390 and T5 combo. I want HP to be considerably increased as part of the rebuild, and will be going to the TKO 5 speed, probably the road-racing version as I like the ratios better. But, that's another story... John, living in Arizona, I'm sure you can understand, that I want AC in any car I drive, doubly so because I'm seriously considering black as the color for this car. Jim Boone Mims, FL _________________________________________________________________ Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:32:40 -0500 From: "Gary L. Kirk" <glkirkbuilders@xxxxxxx> Subject: [AMC-List] 3 groove 3 bolt pully To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <002b01c738ec$af1a6b50$6501a8c0@yourm5d4u9r2uv> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Jim, I have one of the pullies you are talking about. It consists of a cast iron third pully confguration. The pully itself is just a bit smaller than the rest. If you want to call me feel free to 757 651 4513 Gary Kirk ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 16:42:29 EST From: Nolanatcamelot@xxxxxxx Subject: [AMC-List] Gas Tanks and Fuel Level Senders To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx Message-ID: <cec.730f31f.32dd4f45@xxxxxxx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I've asked before but have no record of guidance. Is the tank on the 79 wagon the same as one on a 76 Coupe? If they are, can I assume the fuel level senders are the same also??? If the tanks are not the same, by chance would the senders be the same?? Nolan Dehner Nor Cal AMCs Windsor, Ca 95492 1976 Pacer Standard 1979 Pacer Wagon Limited Nolanatcamelot@xxxxxxx ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:46:05 -0700 From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 3 bolt vs 4 bolt To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <001401c738f6$f3f18330$e2dc0d82@john1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jim Snip By running off the PS pump, that would put the compressor on the driver's side, yes? I've been collecting AC brackets, and even bought a complete, NOS, "Mount up and Drive" kit that AMC sent to the dealers to use when it would be a dealer add-on. All the parts that I have are for the later set-ups, and I believe put it on the passenger side with the 3rd groove/belt. Snip Not "by running off of the PS pump, the only thing that runs off of the power steering pump is the smog (air pump) pump for 1970 if you have standard transmission. It is run BY- the same belt that runs the power steering pump. You get a bigger belt. The Bigger belt runs both the A/C compressor and the power steering pump. Thus the only thing you need for drive pulleys is the 2 groove pulley. The A/C compressor mounts on the passenger side of the engine. Snip John, living in Arizona, I'm sure you can understand, that I want AC in any car I drive, doubly so because I'm seriously considering black as the color for this car. Snip Unnerstood, here you can not even sell a derelict beater if it does not have Working A/C. John ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:52:02 -0700 From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx> Subject: [AMC-List] Re; Gas tanks and fuel level senders To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx> Message-ID: <001901c738f7$c923c270$e2dc0d82@john1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Nolan, Snip I've asked before but have no record of guidance. Is the tank on the 79 wagon the same as one on a 76 Coupe? If they are, can I assume the fuel level senders are the same also??? If the tanks are not the same, by chance would the senders be the same?? Snip Can I assume that you are talking about Pacers? Or are you interested in comparing a Concord Station Wagon to a Hornet Coupe? If you are talking about Pacers, I believe that they are identical. Maybe some one else knows for sure, However there are a number of AMC vendors with online catalogs that you can look up parts for your car from and compare the answers. John. ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ AMC-List mailing list AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 12, Issue 24 ****************************************