AMC-List Digest, Vol 10, Issue 55

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Today's Topics:

   1. Ohio HB 560 (Matt Haas)
   2. Re: AMC Progress (Todd Tomason)
   3. 360 Rebuild (Todd Tomason)
   4. Re: 360 Rebuild (Matt Haas)
   5. bad bearing... somewhere... (d stohler)
   6. Re: bad bearing... somewhere... (Tom Jennings)
   7. Re: AMC Progress (Tom Jennings)
   8. Re: Blasphemy (Jim Blair)
   9. Re: Continuing Saga of Doc the Jeep, Part II.5 (Jim Blair)
  10. Blasphemy (Larry R. Daum)
  11. Re: Continuing Saga of Doc the Jeep, Part II.5 (Nick Lenarz)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 21:54:47 -0500
From: Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Ohio HB 560
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <456BA4F7.9050908@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Ohio is trying to pass a bill into law that allows townships to remove 
"junk" motor vehicles from private property. You can read the text of 
the bill at http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=126_HB_560 
and a summary of the changes at 
http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/analysis.cfm?ID=126_HB_560&ACT=As%20Introduced&hf=analyses126/h0560-i-126.htm. 
  The house is expected to vote on this issue this Thursday (November 
30th). Please contact your state representative to oppose this bill.

You can look up your representative at 
http://www.house.state.oh.us/jsps/RepSearch.jsp?TEXTNAME=&TEXTDIST=&TYPE=Z&TEXTZIP=45255&PLUSFOUR=. 
You can also contact the Chairman of Local and Municipal Government and 
Urban Revitalization Committee:

Representative Larry Wolpert
Telephone: (614) 466-9690
Fax: (614) 719-6962
Email Address: district23@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Matt
-- 
mhaas@xxxxxxx
Cincinnati, OH
http://www.mattsoldcars.com
1967 Rambler American wagon
1968 Rambler American sedan
===============================================================
According to a February survey of Internet holdouts released by
UCLA's Center for Communication Policy, people cite
not having a computer as the No. 1 reason they won't go online.



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:53:17 -0600
From: Todd Tomason <jayscore@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AMC Progress
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200611272053.17967.jayscore@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

But if you buy a later rebuilt distributor it comes with a new vacuum advance.  
Why can the rebuilders buy a Motorcraft vacuum advance, but we can't?

On Monday 27 November 2006 09:16, Jim Blair wrote:
> A: What gets me is that the Prestolite vacuum advance is available, but the
> later Motorcraft one isn't! (At NAPA that is)
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 21:52:20 -0600
From: Todd Tomason <jayscore@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 360 Rebuild
To: AMC List <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <200611272152.20650.jayscore@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

My son and I get to rebuild our first engine.  The 360 in his Matador is 
having major problems.  Driving home the other day he had a dramatic loss of 
power and starting leaking and burning a lot of oil.  He had to add several 
quarts of oil to get home.  The motor now has a lot of blow-by.  It popped 
off the oil fill cap several times.  

We did a compression test yesterday.  Most of the cylinders are about 90 lbs.  
One was 35, and one was 0.  Anyone have suggestions on a plan of attack?  I'm 
thinking of pulling the motor, and pulling the head on the side with the dead 
cylinder.  I'm thinking I should be able to tell if it's the valves or the 
piston.  Is there a better way to do this?

We picked up a 304 from a wrecked Javelin that we plan to put in temporarily.  
This is from a car that we know was running before it was wrecked.  Is there 
anything we should check before we install the motor?  I've been thinking 
that we could run a crude compression by turning the motor by hand.  This 
should alert us to any major problems.  

Todd


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:25:26 -0500
From: Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 360 Rebuild
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <456BBA36.50101@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Todd,

I don't think you'll be able to check compression turning the engine by 
hand. You really need to use the starter motor to turn it over.

On the 360, if the two low cylinders are next to each other, it could be 
a blown head gasket but 90 PSI sounds low to me. There are plenty of 
other problems that you could have but the only way to know for sure is 
to tear the engine down. Since the problem happened all of a sudden, it 
will probably be easy to spot the problem.

Matt

Todd Tomason wrote:
> My son and I get to rebuild our first engine.  The 360 in his Matador is 
> having major problems.  Driving home the other day he had a dramatic loss of 
> power and starting leaking and burning a lot of oil.  He had to add several 
> quarts of oil to get home.  The motor now has a lot of blow-by.  It popped 
> off the oil fill cap several times.  
> 
> We did a compression test yesterday.  Most of the cylinders are about 90 lbs.  
> One was 35, and one was 0.  Anyone have suggestions on a plan of attack?  I'm 
> thinking of pulling the motor, and pulling the head on the side with the dead 
> cylinder.  I'm thinking I should be able to tell if it's the valves or the 
> piston.  Is there a better way to do this?
> 
> We picked up a 304 from a wrecked Javelin that we plan to put in temporarily.  
> This is from a car that we know was running before it was wrecked.  Is there 
> anything we should check before we install the motor?  I've been thinking 
> that we could run a crude compression by turning the motor by hand.  This 
> should alert us to any major problems.  
> 
> Todd
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
> 
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
> 
> 
> 

-- 
mhaas@xxxxxxx
Cincinnati, OH
http://www.mattsoldcars.com
1967 Rambler American wagon
1968 Rambler American sedan
===============================================================
According to a February survey of Internet holdouts released by
UCLA's Center for Communication Policy, people cite
not having a computer as the No. 1 reason they won't go online.



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 21:22:48 -0800 (PST)
From: d stohler <das24rules@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] bad bearing... somewhere...
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20061128052248.84233.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

well, tonight, i tore the rearend all apart. pulled both axle shafts, carier, greased all the bearings. no bad bearings in the rear axle. now the rear is moving VERY smoothly, and quietly. the noise seems to be coming from the torque tube. maybe the middle of it. is there a bearing in there? im sure there is a u-joint right there on the back of the transmission right? being enclosed in there, is there a way it could have dried out? or how much of a pain is that to replace. im kinda puzzled now. i have been so stinking busy, i havent had time to actually sit down and look at my tsm very well. i guess maybe i will just have to MAKE some time to go thru it. 
   
  by chance, there is no one on here that has a set of 3.55 or so gears for that model 15 tt axle is there? if i could get a 35 gear and carier to fit in there, would i be able to change it over to one piece axles and would it be strong enough to keep behind the 304? maybe work without that torque tube with the new pinion? 
   
  dave stohler

 
---------------------------------
Sponsored Link

   Degrees for working adults in as fast as 1 year. Bachelors, Masters, Associates. Top schools

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 21:45:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] bad bearing... somewhere...
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0611272142230.28102@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006, d stohler wrote:

> in the rear axle. now the rear is moving VERY smoothly, and
> quietly. the noise seems to be coming from the torque tube. maybe
> the middle of it. is there a bearing in there? im sure there is a
> u-joint right there on the back of the transmission right? being

It's a weird looking system... !

There's a CV joint (two U-joint X's) up at the trans end,
a sealed/un-lubeable bearing in the middle, and a splined
slip coupler in the rear. I think the center bears are still
available. They're under no real force (they keep the solid
portion of the driveshaft centered, is all), the one in my
Rambler is 350,000+ miles and still silent.

Check out the TSM; there's differences in the shaft, six
vs. eight.



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 21:37:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AMC Progress
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0611272136080.28102@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006, Todd Tomason wrote:

> But if you buy a later rebuilt distributor it comes with a new vacuum advance.  
> Why can the rebuilders buy a Motorcraft vacuum advance, but we can't?
> 

Are the Duraspark V8 vacuum advance units the same for the
six? If so, you could get an aftermarket adjustable unit,
if not a stock Ferd part.



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 22:33:50 -0800
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Blasphemy
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F269B7AFFC5909241740679ACE50@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

A: In the same vein (hopefully this won't get too bloody!) not vain (as in 
taking the lord's name) I always opt for something a little more AMC. 
Replace the tired old flatheads with Jeep 4 cyls (there is a remarkably 
large amount of them being pulled along with the wiring harness and computer 
and being replaced with 4.0L and 4.6L strokers)
   You wouldn't believe how many people think I'm crazy for replacing the 
dead 360 in my '73 J4000 with a 304 from a '77 AMX (it's been keeping me 
rolling for almost 4 years now and only the waterpump disintegrating has 
been catastrophic because it took my brand new rad with it!) because I use 
it for near extreme hauling. (many loads in the 6500lb range without much of 
a whimper unless the 2100 has bad gas)
   I'd like to do more with it. (wish I'd kept the Holley 2 bbl TBI system 
off the 5.0L Tbird I sold a couple years ago for next to nothing) Then my 
wife would be more inclined to ride around in it (too noisy and too cold 
with no tunes cuz it looks like a toon car! AM radio doesn't work in the 
boonies)


From: "Jim Boone" <fljab@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Blasphemy
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY116-F19EDCD5EFF081AE8CBE775ACE60@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Non-AMC powered cars has been and still is a subject that brings
out very
vocal opinions.  It's been discussed here on the list at length
at different
times, usually with great debate.  AMO a couple of yrs ago
finally voted in
a non-AMC powered class for shows.

I have always been of the opinion that there really is no
good-enough reason
to put a Cheby engine (the usual choice) in your AMC (or Ford,
Mopar, etc).
There are still plenty of good engines - esp. 360's - out there
that can be
configured to make good power reasonably to satisfy most needs.

Now, that being said, it's hard to argue when you go to a car
show/large
swap meet, and you see trailer loads of wreck/take out LS1
engines+OD trans
that make good power, are very reasonably priced, and require
little to put
in other than figuring out the mounts and how to hook the
computer up with
the appropriate sensors.

With that in mind, I saw something this weekend at the Daytona
Turkey Rod
Run that I think is a great alternative to using GM power.  Use
a late model
Hemi!  I saw a 4000 mile 5.7L engine+auto trans
w/computer/sensors/wiring
for about $3K.  At least it's in the family, or you can make
that argument
anyway.  Plus, that's in the range of what it would take to
build a good AMC
engine at today's prices.

The Mopar Hemi's are getting plentiful in the junkyard - at
least the 5.7's.
  The 6.1L - 425 HP versions are still scarce and pricey, but
for a driver,
the smaller one would surely liven up an American.  It would
offer power,
reliability, driveability, and wouldn't be a GM!  So, if you
must do a swap,
then think about using this combo.

Just a thought from my overactive mind...

Jim Boone
Mims, FL

_________________________________________________________________
Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered 
by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:04:25 -0800
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Continuing Saga of Doc the Jeep, Part II.5
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F38D2CBAC3B83368BFC439EACE50@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Here's a little something to put in your pipe: Altering the cam advanced 
also mods the power band (as in where it starts/stops in the RPM band) I 
used the 3 key set in my '66 Fairlane's 289 and couldn't get any top end 
RPM. It had brutal power to 1700 RPM then fell flat... It also pinged like a 
banshee! Retarded the cam and voilà! no more probs!


From: Nick Lenarz <n9viw@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Continuing Saga of Doc the Jeep, Part
II.5
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <456069.99334.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

WOO HOO!!! I KNEW I wasn't crazy! :p

Just got off the phone with William at Comp Cams tech help line.
I
asked him what the correlation was, if any, between ignition
timing and
valve timing. He told me that, depending on where the valve
timing is,
the ignition timing is going to HAVE to change in order to
capture the
best possible ignition time in relation to both the crankshaft
position
AND valve positions.
If I had set my adjustable timing set to the 3* retarded
position, my
ignition timing would subsequently have to be retarded as well
to
produce power at the point the valves are closed and the piston
is at
TDC; however, since I advanced the timing gears on a cam that's
ALREADY
advanced, I put myself in a bind. The 7* combined valve advance
would
REQUIRE ignition timing so far advanced that the moment between
running
well and running poorly is like a razor's edge.
He asked me if I had a 'bodacious' (he's in TN) spark knock at
acceleration, and I said yes. He said that would well prove it-
if the
engine will only run at a particularly high ignition advance but
still
knock, the cam is too far advanced. If I back the crank down to
0*, I
should be able to reset my ignition timing to a more appropriate
level,
which will eliminate the knock!

I say again, WOO HOOOOO!!! I'm tempted to add a "f'n" in the
middle
there, but this is a family forum. :D
Tonight I'm gonna go home and strip the nose of the Jeep in prep
for
getting that timing set out and repositioned. Finally, the light
at the
end of the tunnel ISN'T a train!! :D :D :D

_________________________________________________________________
Get FREE company branded e-mail accounts and business Web site from 
Microsoft Office Live 
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------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 01:19:37 -0800
From: "Larry R. Daum" <mramc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Blasphemy
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Jim Boone <fljab@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20061127150640.024eb408@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed


[AMC-List] Blasphemy

Date: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:52 AM
From: <mailto:fljab@xxxxxxxxxxx?subject=%5BAMC-List%5D%20Blasphemy>Jim 
Boone <fljab@xxxxxxxxxxx>


Non-AMC powered cars has been and still is a subject that brings out very
vocal opinions.  It's been discussed here on the list at length at different
times, usually with great debate.  AMO a couple of yrs ago finally voted in
a non-AMC powered class for shows.

I have always been of the opinion that there really is no good-enough reason
to put a Cheby engine (the usual choice) in your AMC (or Ford, Mopar, etc).
There are still plenty of good engines - esp. 360's - out there that can be
configured to make good power reasonably to satisfy most needs.

Now, that being said, it's hard to argue when you go to a car show/large
swap meet, and you see trailer loads of wreck/take out LS1 engines+OD trans
that make good power, are very reasonably priced, and require little to put
in other than figuring out the mounts and how to hook the computer up with
the appropriate sensors.

With that in mind, I saw something this weekend at the Daytona Turkey Rod
Run that I think is a great alternative to using GM power.  Use a late model
Hemi!  I saw a 4000 mile 5.7L engine+auto trans w/computer/sensors/wiring
for about $3K.  At least it's in the family, or you can make that argument
anyway.  Plus, that's in the range of what it would take to build a good AMC
engine at today's prices.

The Mopar Hemi's are getting plentiful in the junkyard - at least the 5.7's.
   The 6.1L - 425 HP versions are still scarce and pricey, but for a driver,
the smaller one would surely liven up an American.  It would offer power,
reliability, driveability, and wouldn't be a GM!  So, if you must do a swap,
then think about using this combo.

Just a thought from my overactive mind...

Jim Boone
Mims, FL
****************************************************************************************
I've always believed that if you own a car , then you should have the right 
to do what ever you want with it. I know Rick Payne and I've seen his 72 
Javelin when he started out pretty much with good shell but no drive line 
or interior. Any way I've got the story behind AMO having a non-AMC powered 
car class. While I'm not really greatly in favor of non AMC powered AMCs , 
like I said if you own it you should have the right to do what ever you 
want to your own car. But the story behind the non AMC powered class in AMO 
is funny, very funny as far as I'm concerned. The story is about six years old
but no ones told it yet and I only heard it a year or so after the fact but 
I've talked with the party involved and confirmed the story to my 
satisfaction. I won't use the name or tell you the specific car but any way 
here goes. Like I said I consider the story to be very funny.

Our story starts about six or so years ago at an AMO meet in the Midwest. 
Like I said I talked to the party involved but only to confirm the story. I 
believe it was an AMO National meet , but I don't really ask where or when. 
Like I said it was a year or two after the fact before I heard about it and 
got it confirmed from the party involved. Any way this guy has an early 
Hornet 2 door sedan judged at an AMO "concourse" and I use that word 
"concourse" very loosely. The car was judged in a non-stock AMC class and 
was awarded I believe a Silver award. A couple months latter AMO when back 
to said guy and asked for the award back. Seems the car had a orange 
colored small block Chevy in the Hornet! What I find very funny is AMO 
judged the car and no one noticed the car had a small block Chevy in it for 
a couple months. The party involved would not give the award back and 
rightly so since it was in a non-stock class and I believe AMO "concourse" 
rules never specially barred non AMC engines in a non stock class. So AMO 
went after the fact and created a non AMC powered non-stock car class. This 
why it was done. I took some of the egg off there faces giving an award to 
Chevy powered Hornet. I really think that is funny. It's sad , but funny.

Here is the problem I have with it, not that they awarded a non AMC powered 
car an award. They (AMO)calls a judged car show a "concourse" when it 
really not. In a true "concourse" you would have trained judges and a set 
of standards , not a rather loose set of general guide lines like AMC has 
now. Judged car show not a concourse. In fact at Dayton this year I was 
sitting in the Hotel lobby talking with the number 2 guy on AMO "Concourse" 
judging and he was telling me AMO was having a big problem getting any cars 
in a stock class of any type. Two reasons for this, one there is not 
written standard for stock. AMCRC comes closer to now having a written 
standard for stock then AMO does which , well has nothing written down nor 
does the newsletter really give clue one to what it  is or should be. In 
fact in my opinion AMO shows a great deal of we had this car show and very 
little on the actual marque of AMC itself. The other bigger problem is some 
parts to restore a car , just are not out there, making 100% stock a really 
tuff deal, especially on an odd less common AMC. You can most of the stuff 
for an AMX or Javelin. Some times it comes at a dear price. Do not get me 
started on the $700 factory correct date coded fan belt for 1969 AMX some 
one paid. I just find funny that AMO blows this deal and then changed the 
rules to partly at least cover it up , by creating a non AMC powered AMC 
class. Admit you don't have a true concourse and fix the problem , don't 
just cover the problem up. thanks , Larry R. Daum






------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 10:08:58 -0500
From: Nick Lenarz <n9viw@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Continuing Saga of Doc the Jeep, Part II.5
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<ADVANCES62FRaqbC8wS00000007@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 10, Issue 55
****************************************