AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 68
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 68
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- Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 12:00:01 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. More (Mahoney, John)
2. Re: More (Sandwich Maker)
3. Re: T-14 Overdrive (Jim Blair)
4. Re: 2007 AMC Meets (Matt Haas)
5. Re: T-14 Overdrive (Mark Price)
6. Ebay SCfake (Mark Price)
7. Re: 2007 AMC Meets (Jim Shadwick)
8. AMC print GOLDMINE (Tom Jennings)
9. Re: T-14 Overdrive (Sandwich Maker)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 18:04:20 -0400
From: "Mahoney, John" <jmahoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] More
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<BFF496024CD8E8499845576906CA0F190D2FD8@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Remember an Alliance?
"The goal is to create a strategy that assures sustained profitability of DaimlerChrysler; we don't exclude anything here. We at first are doing the analysis, then we are talking about it, and we draw our conclusions."
[Will D-B divest of Mopar?]
"I can only repeat myself: first analysis, second measures, third is conclusion. That is what my statement is."
http://tinyurl.com/w3ytv
Remember a Medallion?
"Sometime towards the end of the year we should start to get a clear picture within the management and sometime in the beginning of next year we should be at a point where we can inform the public about what we will be doing."
http://tinyurl.com/evvcu
Remember Project Titan?
"We shall be listening."
http://tinyurl.com/y222j6
http://tinyurl.com/yypvmg
CFO and Vorstandsvorsitzender spoke 10/25/06; CEO spoke in an AMC dream.
Remember when AMC had 1,472 North American dealerships?? Remember 1987.
General Motors had 39.6% of the American market then! And AMC had 0.7%.
You say, "I don't care: history is bunk."
You believe everything is fine with AMC.
It was, it is, and, for forever will be.
History's bunk.
Indeed.
"Whatever Iacocca touches turns to gold."
One of the 19,500 AMC employees who celebrated on Chrysler buyout day.
Does he still have his job at AMC-Jeep?
Does AMC still employ 5,400 in Kenosha?
Do you still believe "History is bunk"?
It was, it is, and, for forever will be.
History sucks.
Indeed.
Remember Rambler and Concord?
"Small does not equate to cheap anymore."
http://www.carlist.com/conceptcars/davidrand.html
[Neither '50 Convertible Landau nor '78 D/L were sold as "cheap" cars!]
Remember Gremlin and Pacer?
"A successful small car isn't just a downsized version of a larger one; in the '80s and late '70s, the idea was to take a big car and shrink it down. Now we start with fresh architecture [and] we do it right."
http://tinyurl.com/u736z
(Yes, dude has ponytail)
[Both '70.5 96" and '75 100" 3-doors were "revolutionary" car designs!]
Remember Rambler, Hornet, Gremlin, LeCar, Fuego, and AMC Jeep Cherokee?
http://www.allpar.com/trucks/jeep/liberty-2008.html
>From roof to lights, flair to flares, go back to square one: AMC roots!
>>
when did the xj have rear disks? afaik only the zj, wj, and tj
rubicon have had them. dunno about the liberty.
<<
http://www.rockcrawler.com/reviews/jeep/liberty_2002/index.asp
http://tinyurl.com/yb4rlw
Do your own due diligence:
http://www-5.jeep.com/vehsuite/VehicleCompare.jsp
or take Liberty in new-old trucks.
http://www.southernmotorcompany.com/
Could Frank sell new-old SC AMCs?
Maybe a "T/A Javelin" and "AMX/3"
http://tinyurl.com/y8mcps
http://tinyurl.com/gsth9
and everyone's favorite machine, a '57 "Rambler Rebel" muscle car? No?
http://www.1957chevybody.com/body_options.html
Why not? Didn't you just say that AMC is doing great as a collectible?
Which brings to mind one of the AMC magazine mentions no one writes up.
If AMC fans read, why don't they note? Is Jock the only one to bother?
A question: the sole car in Fall '06 MCR (their "'69 car" issue) that's not totally stock is an AMX. How does that strike you? What does that say about AMC? What does it imply about AMC values? What will non-AMC people infer about AMC standards. Or are you happy to see -any- AMC in a national publication, no matter how it compares to the "other" makes?
Remember: Nash began by building "Buicks" and Hudson didn't build "poor man" cars. Essex, Ajax, Terraplane, and Rambler never were bottom-of-the barrel. Packard was more prestigious than Cadillac and Studebaker built Presidents. American Motors never was planned to be second-rate.
Somehow its demographic fell --- and so did its values: on history, on quality, on community, and on vehicle value. "Rambler mentality" took on a different meaning and "AMC fan" took on a different slant. Don't you think it's well past time to turn -your- automotive hobby around?
My bling-on-wheels point(s) missed their mark (what else is new?): in part because one link didn't connect. It does work, but you will have to work to make that happen. You can't just click. Copy and paste it
http://k41.pbase.com/u39/xl1ken/upload/25286246.DSCN7502.jpg
and you'll see results. Shimmers like any SS Electro-Motive (I'm sure someone probably prefers an astounding ALCO or a big Baldwin to my D-E fav [Super Chief livery symbolizes both an era and a lifestyle to me]) and hauls like any loco (of which Loewy's S1 cover-up was as Avanti as any sporting car he drew from Munich or South Bend) plus, maybe sadly, shows what America --- e.g. Detroit --- still -could- do. I consider Burlington Zephyr and similar designs as I consider the AMC Vixen and AMX/2: wonderful work that never truly stood a -permanent- chance for success. Brief shining moments with limited opportunity,
yet influential beyond their wildest dreams. Such a list is endless.
Graham Blue Streak, Airflow, Cord 810, Gremlin, Pacer, and many more.
Milwaukee Road's Brooks Stevens Hiawatha Observations (and SuperDome: has there ever been a more magnificent passenger car?); the line was bankrupt, but their memory lives on. Off the ground, de Havilland's Comet, Sud's Caravelle, and even Tupolev's Tus are "failed" beauties from transportation history, but you can be sure they are remembered.
http://hondajet.honda.com/
>>
didn't that lafrance v12 come from auburn? iirc it was acquired when
auburn went under.
<<
Yes, the '38-'59 AFL motor looks like Auburn's Lycoming V-12, but there were changes. 491-526ci vs. 392ci to begin with, differences in blocks and bearings. Auburn carbs are too small to swap well as are exhausts. Transmission, generator, distributor, and [dual-spark] ignition issues, but it can, and has, been done. Some even do V-12 Duesies. Dunno why though.
>>
" Zephyr's V-12 was only a plus-four Ford V-8 flathead...
" --- and nearly as big as the 2003 Cadillac Sixteen Concept Car's 829ci
it was?!? iirc the -original- zephyr v12 topped out at 305 cubes in
its biggest version. and 'ford' is right - the chassis was ford all
the way, only stretched from 112" wb to 118".
<<
I wrote a zillion e-mails yesterday afternoon, didn't really have time to play with AMC cars, had to cut my "commentary" and mucked up what I -did- write. Didn't make sense to me either and I used to know it cold. Let's do it again. And do it right. Albeit with rounding. And even more rushed finger taps.
Lin '32-'33: 448; '34-'40 [K]: 414; '36-'39 [Z]: 267.3; '40-'48: 292.
Cad '30-'37 [12]: 368; '30-'32 [16]: 453; '33-'37: 450, '38-'40: 431.
Pac '32-'34: 445.5; '35-'39: 473.
P-A '32-'38: 462.
Mar '31-'33: 491.
Quite amazing; only 930 lbs. 370 lighter than Cad's and with all the aluminum in chassis and body (which was NOT --- as I've actually read AMC experts write --- designed by the father of Richard Teague), 0-60 faster than a Duesenberg (which would've won 0-100, thanks to DOHC at higher revs) --- the kind of car you will sit and stare at endlessly. Mine (which I mentioned here recently) was one of several in maroon-on-silver two-tone, but even in a screaming yellow,
Sixteen seems a thing of beauty.
I'm running out of time again today, so you can do Franklin V-12 and Peerless V-16 on your own (see the aluminum body that Murphy built before Carling began filling aluminum cans with beer...); I'll note that the Auburn 391 was the best buy of all the multi-cylinder cars. $975 (closed) in '32: I'm happy to own a Custom Eight sedan; I'd be nuts about a Salon Twelve phaeton. To dream Errett's dream; that's life.
Why didn't anyone else build 12s or more? Chrysler's first [385] 8 didn't appear until '31 (in beautiful bodywork, factory-done and by Derham, **LeBaron**, Locke, Murphy, or Waterhouse: CG, CH, and CL were glorious vehicles): WPC wasn't able to rustle up more muscle at the height of the depression. First came the Depression, then came the Airflow: fewer than 100 146.5" CW and 137.5" C3 Imperials were sold.
Studebaker had 134" and 135" Presidents, however, from 1928-1933, Studebaker also had its own luxury liners: Studebaker owned Pierce-Arrow. Stude's 8 was designed by Locomobile-Marmon-Pierce Roos, but, by 1933, Stude was bankrupt. No V-12/16.
Duesenberg didn't need more cylinders; blowing on its 8 was enough.
Nash could have put a 12 in his 133" and 142" Ambassadors, but his 8 (322) was good for 125-hp (when Buick's 345 made 113-hp.) Nash mentality. 'Nuf said?
Hudson's 354 8 made only 101-hp, but it didn't much matter, for, as Hudson would be famous for in the '50s (and BMW remains famous for, albeit with new wind blowing), Hudson was a Super Six automaker.
The lack of a V-8, as much as the lack of styling options, was what made Hudson marry Nash in 1954. You just couldn't sell a six when you could have a V-8.
.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 18:41:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] More
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200610262241.k9QMf5d29747@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "Mahoney, John" <jmahoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
"
"
"
" >>
" when did the xj have rear disks? afaik only the zj, wj, and tj
" rubicon have had them. dunno about the liberty.
" <<
"
" http://www.rockcrawler.com/reviews/jeep/liberty_2002/index.asp
"
" http://tinyurl.com/yb4rlw
okay, so the liberty has disks too. how does that help an xj swap?
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:54:25 -0700
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] T-14 Overdrive
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F306F9386D5E2D00A998A00AC070@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
A: I find that steep gearing works well with AMC 6 cyls. I run 3.73 with 33"
tires and 5 speed in my MJ and it feels about right (even though my motor is
fading a bit having surpassed the 240,000 mile mark)
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] T-14 Overdrive
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <5012620.1161873003379.JavaMail.root@web11>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Thanks for pointing the need for the 3.31 or steeper axle with
OD.
You have to be carefull not to overdo, er, under gear the car!
I run a 3.31 with T-5 and about a .8 overdrive right now.
[255/60/15 tires] So figuring this ends up geared about the same
as a 3.08 normal tired car that puts it at about a 2.46 final
drive.
It does real well with this combo.
When I put the new T5 with .64 overdrive in I intend to move up
to an S-10 two wheel drive, disc brake rear axle with 3.42
ratio. I think I may end up under egared though as this will end
up at about 2.04 final in OD. Maybe it will work with torque of
the EFI 4.0L, but now that I do the numbers I may have to look
for a steeper geared axle. The two wheels drive S-10 axles
measure in about 54 3/8" this is about 2" narrower then the
stock American axle. I'll probably run spacers for the time
being, but as I run a wheel with 4 1/4" switching to a 3 1/4"
backspace wheel at a later date will likely happen as they are a
standard aftermarket wheel at that offset.
If anyone needs a 3.31 American axle, I should have two
coming up for sale.
The one in the car has a sslightly turned axle tube, but works
fine, it is twingrip and complete. The spare is an open axle
from a 199 auto car, had 43K on it it is open and will need
brakes I assume as it has sat for a while now.
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
_________________________________________________________________
Try the next generation of search with Windows Live Search today!
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 21:20:34 -0400
From: Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 2007 AMC Meets
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20061026212001.029b5d58@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
The city of Kenosha is doing another show in 2007 but I don't have any
details handy.
Matt
At 08:22 AM 10/26/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>Starting to look at AMC Meets for 2007. AMO's meet in
>Denver is just too far for me. Looking for some
>regional meets on the East Coast. Any one have any
>info on next years meets? Thank you,
>
>Bill Strobel
>Independent Towing
>Fayetteville NC
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>_______________________________________________
>AMC-List mailing list
>AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
>or go to http://www.amc-list.com
mhaas@xxxxxxx
Cincinnati, OH
http://www.mattsoldcars.com
1967 Rambler American wagon
1968 Rambler American sedan
===============================================================
According to a February survey of Internet holdouts released by
UCLA's Center for Communication Policy, people cite
not having a computer as the No. 1 reason they won't go online.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 18:31:41 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] T-14 Overdrive
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Jim Blair <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <24637582.1161912701888.JavaMail.root@web35>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I ran the nubers on your combo and mine and assuming 1-1 gearing in 4th for comparison sake and a 28" tire on my car, My gearing is steeper!
Yes it runs well and does well on mpg.
As I said I'm somewhat concerned about the .64 overdrive in the 2.95 1st gear motorsport spec trans I'm building. It specs out to about 1790 RPM at 70 mpg with a 3.31 and just over 1800 rpm with the propesed 3.42. Ideal is a about a 3.55 but this is not a "stock gear" for the S10, they go straight to 3.73.
I'll reserve my judgement till I get the trans in and holdoff till I drive it with the 3.31's then decide.
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- Jim Blair <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> A: I find that steep gearing works well with AMC 6 cyls. I run 3.73 with 33"
> tires and 5 speed in my MJ and it feels about right (even though my motor is
> fading a bit having surpassed the 240,000 mile mark)
>
>
> From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [AMC-List] T-14 Overdrive
> To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Message-ID: <5012620.1161873003379.JavaMail.root@web11>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Thanks for pointing the need for the 3.31 or steeper axle with
> OD.
> You have to be carefull not to overdo, er, under gear the car!
> I run a 3.31 with T-5 and about a .8 overdrive right now.
> [255/60/15 tires] So figuring this ends up geared about the same
> as a 3.08 normal tired car that puts it at about a 2.46 final
> drive.
> It does real well with this combo.
> When I put the new T5 with .64 overdrive in I intend to move up
> to an S-10 two wheel drive, disc brake rear axle with 3.42
> ratio. I think I may end up under egared though as this will end
> up at about 2.04 final in OD. Maybe it will work with torque of
> the EFI 4.0L, but now that I do the numbers I may have to look
> for a steeper geared axle. The two wheels drive S-10 axles
> measure in about 54 3/8" this is about 2" narrower then the
> stock American axle. I'll probably run spacers for the time
> being, but as I run a wheel with 4 1/4" switching to a 3 1/4"
> backspace wheel at a later date will likely happen as they are a
> standard aftermarket wheel at that offset.
> If anyone needs a 3.31 American axle, I should have two
> coming up for sale.
> The one in the car has a sslightly turned axle tube, but works
> fine, it is twingrip and complete. The spare is an open axle
> from a 199 auto car, had 43K on it it is open and will need
> brakes I assume as it has sat for a while now.
> --
> Mark Price
> markprice242ATadelphia.net
> Morgantown, WV
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Try the next generation of search with Windows Live Search today!
> http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 18:46:52 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Ebay SCfake
To: AMC List <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "AMC-DelMarVA: yahoogroups.com" <AMC-DelMarVA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <38573.1161913612553.JavaMail.root@web35>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Makes you wonder when a Not even close clone is at $12K!
Nice looking car, but it's a SEDAN! If they wanted to clone one great, but at least get the right body!
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:02:38 -0600
From: Jim Shadwick <idahoamx@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 2007 AMC Meets
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <454168BE.4060907@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Kenosha 2007 INFO
http://www.amonational.com/kenosha2007.htm
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.11/497 - Release Date: 10/25/2006
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 21:07:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] AMC print GOLDMINE
To: AMC List <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0610262048410.17006@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
www.abebooks.com
It's a meta-search of searchable bookstores, used and new. Enter
"American Motors" (in quotes). It's shocking how much is there,
and how cheap.
For TSMs, also search "shop manual".
I use it often for specialized technical stuff; but it never
occurred to me to search for AMC stuff. What a fool I was!
Three books on George Romney; lots of owners manuals; brochures
from the 50's; 63 Rambler Accessories booklet. 55 Nash TSM.
random selection:
133. Siegfried Slays the Dragon .. Again -- Print Ad for 1958 Rambler Rebel
American Motors
Bookseller: Goodbooks
(Pearland, TX, U.S.A.) Price: US$ 12.50
[Convert Currency]
Quantity: 1 Shipping within U.S.A.:
US$ 3.50
[Rates & Speeds] Add Book to Shopping Basket
Book Description: American Motors., 1958. Very Good. This is
a one-page magazine advertisement for the 1958 Rambler Rebel,
printed inside the front cover of an issue of the Saturday
Evening Post. It features a cartoon strip by Whitney Darrow,
Jr. , a longtime cartoonist for the New Yorker. This was the
year that Rambler became its own brand and split off from
Nash, so this is one of the very first advertisements for the
AMC Rambler. The Rambler American was also shown in the ad;
it featured the optional Flash-O-Matic transmission. The ad
measures about 9.5"x12" on a 10.5"x13.5" page. There is some
wear and tear to the edges but the image area is unaffected and
is still suitable for framing. There is some minor browning to
the paper. E-mail for close-up photos. Illustrated by Whitney
Darrow Jr. Binding is Unbound. Bookseller Inventory # 187
4. American Motors Century: 52 pages saddle stiched pamphlet on AMC history with emphasis on Canadian aspects
Bookseller: Books4cars.com
(Seattle, WA, U.S.A.) Price: US$ 14.95
[Convert Currency]
Quantity: 1 Shipping within U.S.A.:
US$ 4.50
[Rates & Speeds] Add Book to Shopping Basket
Book Description: 1900 - 1988. Bookseller Inventory # 538
[Bookseller & Payment Information] [More Books from this Seller]
[Ask Bookseller a Question]
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 00:46:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] T-14 Overdrive
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200610270446.k9R4k3d01660@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
"
" As I said I'm somewhat concerned about the .64 overdrive in the 2.95
" 1st gear motorsport spec trans I'm building. It specs out to about
" 1790 RPM at 70 mph with a 3.31 and just over 1800 rpm with the
" propesed 3.42.
just fyi, for the 2.95 and 3.35 gearsets there are 0.63, 0.68, 0.73,
and 0.80 5ths available. the first 3 are ford gears with the 0.73 gm
also, and the 0.80 is direct from bw. i'd lean toward the 0.80 since
it lines up best with the other gears. the 0.63 would make a good
6th!
since you're taking the tranny apart, are you gonna put the
5speeds.com cluster stabilizer in? you're already doing the labor and
it's pretty cheap parts...
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 68
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