AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 34
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 34
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- Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 19:12:12 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Rambler Hot Rod (Michael Bailey)
2. Re: 196 ohv performance camshaft
(Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
3. Re: performance cam for 196 ohv
(Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
4. 196 OHV/L-head/AL differences
(Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
5. Re: Jeep? Ford? same difference (hot rod chassis!)
(Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
6. 196 info needed from Hollander's -- anyone have a set??
(Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
7. SX/4 in salvage (Eddie Stakes)
8. Lots of Stuff for sale in FL (Jim Boone)
9. Re: Rambler Hot Rod (Tom Jennings)
10. Re: Rambler Hot Rod (Mark Price)
11. Re: 71 AMX 401, 4spd for sale (Savage, Pete)
12. Re: 71 AMX 401, 4spd for sale (Widiker, John D)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 06:43:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Bailey <route66rambler@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Rambler Hot Rod
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20061012134334.70735.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I'm with John Elle. You're not far from the Pomona Swaps, and I hear that it's a real destination. The house where I scored two V8 Americans for 1K each was only 2 or 3 miles away from the fairgrounds, and that guy couldn't stop himself from going every month. I guess sometimes it's weekly or twice a month.
Probably part of it is John and I are both in Phoenix, and you just plain never know what you'll see. Over here, the Custom, Antique, and Sports Car Trader has things like old hot rod projects all the time. That 69 Firebird or 66 Mustang will cost a boatload, but these old rat rods and such are around for amazing deals.
There has actually been a complete "barn find" or, more accurately "carport sitter" 29 Nash roadster for sale here in the last 9 months or so that was only 1500 bucks, in poor but running condition. There have been numerous other early Nashes, Hudsons, and even a few Henry J's and Jets.
One guy in a penny-saver type newsletter offered "assorted pieces of 20's Nash and teens Mitchell parts" for 750 bucks. The picture showed an entire city residential lot jammed with these parts. He just needed to get them out of there. The city build-up and HOA's had reached the guy, and he just needed to get rid of the stuff. He would'nt take offers on the lot full of tri-five Chevys across the street though. I just didn't get the 750 in time, and the stuff went to the scrap yard.
Look around, that hot rod idea is probably just waiting to be finished, already chopped, channelled, sectioned, frenched, and just needing a cool drivetrain and front end. (Hanging the front end kills lots o' rod projects)
mike
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 08:47:27 -0500
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 196 ohv performance camshaft
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, <redamc1963@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D019870B1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Just be careful if you get another (new or used) cam!! AMC played around
with the late model 196. In 63 they changed the cam bearing sizes and
oil delivery was also changed to prevent pumping to much to the head as
roads in the US improved and sustained high speed (60+ for an hour or
more) driving was more common. That's easy to spot -- if the oil line to
the T in the head (goes into head at T, then on to filter) comes from
the main oil galley (the hump along the bottom right side of the block),
it's a pre 63. If the oil line comes from the flat of the block just
above the main galley, it's a 63-65. Oil on those is metered through a
flat spot in the front cam journal. Oil is delivered to the head only
over about 1/4th of the cam rotation/ limiting flow to the head. On
older models it wasn't a problem because they were seldom ran at high
speeds for long. I was alerted by a fellow who bought a cam from Kanter
a few years ago and noticed he wasn't getting any oil to the head. He
switched oil source and everything was fine since this was a resto and
not something driven at highway speeds for long. I notified Kanter of
the problem and the fix. It's easy enough to have a machine shop
duplicate the flat -- it could be done with a grinder and emery cloth to
polish the cam journal if you're careful and have an old cam to use as
an example. I don't recall if the flat is over the entire journal or
just a portion of it, or if it's more of a slot in the center of the
journal. Kanter replied and said they'd let their customers know of the
difference and the fix. A Hollander's manual lists the engine number the
cam bearing and cam change started with. Maybe Andrew Hay can look that
up for us?
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 08:50:38 -0500
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] performance cam for 196 ohv
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D019870B9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I think I looked into this and found that the lobe centers are
different? Can't recall now. Might be just that it wasn't necessary for
the added lift. As I said, there's plenty adjustment in the rockers to
make up 0.10" added lift, no longer pushrods necessary. You guys are to
used to the new stuff with no adjustment!! ;>
-----original messages-----------
Yeah, exactly my thought!
especially if the base circle is the same or larger.
If it was larger you could get one regorund and not need to do the
pushrod
thing!
Just have them leave the base circle at the stock overhead cam spec!
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2006, Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM wrote:
>
> > The cam is definitely different from a flat head cam. The bearings
are
> > the same, so the cam would fit, but the lobe profiles are totally
> > different.
>
> Then they might make good cores!
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:30:13 -0500
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 196 OHV/L-head/AL differences
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D01987114@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Andrew is correct on all counts -- 196 OHV has both valves in head, 196
L-head both in block. The die-cast aluminum block engine (61-63) had a
cast iron head painted silver to match the bare block. The AL block head
is slightly wider than the iron engine head though, so a standard iron
head doesn't fit! Bolt pattern and everything else is the same though. I
heard of one person who had a 1/4" thick strip of steel welded to an
iron block head for use on an aluminum block. The head is only about
1/8" wider, but that's enough to make it seal on the right side whereas
a standard iron head won't.
Any machining mods that work on a flat-head Ford V-8 should work on a
flat-head six as well. I think Clarence is thinking about the Jeep four
cylinder -- that's the only F head (intake valve in head, exhaust valve
in block) that I'm familiar with.
The 196 OHV is a conversion of the L-head, but part of the block casting
was changed. The left side of the block is identical on both versions,
but the right side is vastly different. Everything from the cylinder
bores over and main oil galley up was changed. Timing chain and gears
interchange, as well as oil pumps, but the distributor locations and
drives are different. Internal parts interchange except for pistons.
------------------
" From: "Clarence Milstead" <cmilstead@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
"
" I don't know anything about the 196 ohv engine but from what people
have
" said the intake valve is in the head and the exhaust is in the block,
is
" that right?
there are two 196s, a flathead and an ohv derived from it. no f-head
version. the ohv has both valves in the head. there's also a rare
version of the ohv with an aluminum block but i think an iron head.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 09:38:57 -0500
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Jeep? Ford? same difference (hot rod chassis!)
To: <tomj@xxxxxxx>, <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D0198712E@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Problem: Jeep CJ wheelbase is damned short!! Might work with an old 50s
Willys Jeep pick-up chassis, or even an FSJ Wagoneer/Cherokee. No matter
what you do it will sit high and require a new front axle, so costs is
going to be up there.
A T bucket on a Jeep chassis might work though. Postal Jeeps are 2WD.
They use a tube axle in front, more or less a straight pipe replacing
diff and axle tubes.
I think you'd be better off with a T style chassis. It won't cost any
more once you figure all the mods if you build it yourself from 2x3 or
2x4 tubing, and salvage a straight axle (or buy used). Run the big
exhaust on the outside of the body like some of the early Indy cars,
just dip enough on the right side that you don't inadvertently rest your
left elbow on it!
--excerpts from original message---------------
But then I stumbled upon photos of a 1984 Jeep CJ chassis --
it's of course just a pair of rails that suuuure looks a lot
like a 32 Ford! (If you take off your glasses and squint.)
2) Go further and strip out the front axle. I've never heard
of a short jeep w/2wd, but what do I know. But of course a beam
axle would do just fine -- lots of parts there!
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 10:07:36 -0500
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 196 info needed from Hollander's -- anyone have a
set??
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D01987185@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
There is some cam and cam bearing interchange info for the late (63-65)
196 in the 60's Hollander manuals. I had a set at one time years ago and
ended up selling them as there wasn't much info I needed for Ramblers.
Just the odd little things like this that I thought I wrote down
somewhere, now can't find!! Probably should have kept the darn books,
but moving around in the military means you have to pick and choose what
you keep, and a pair of big heavy books with little use had to go for
more useful ones!
Anyway, you'll find the info for 63-65 cams and cam bearings. AMC
monkeyed with the bearing sizes as well as the oiling source. I think
there was a late 64 change in size too -- why AMC changed things so late
in the game I don't know, unless it was to match the 232 size and save a
few bucks on supply and stocking. I never checked to see if the bearings
were the same as the 232. I went through all this with A.J. in Texas
when he was building a late model 196 a few years ago (my old engine!),
but as I said, lost my notes. The Hollander's lists the engine number
the change started with, and/or a date. If someone has access to a set,
see what you can find and send it to me, and the list so someone else
can save it too (and it will be in the archives).
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 10:06:46 -0500
From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] SX/4 in salvage
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <007301c6ee12$3470fd80$e8f3b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Not mine, but in a pick and pull in Hazleton, PA, people up there might want
to go strip it! It is in the Mopar section. This is off the badassgremil
site.
http://www.wegotused.com/
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.planethoustonamx.com
Email is currently HEAVY
5-12 day reply times, call if important
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 12:02:50 -0400
From: "Jim Boone" <fljab@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Lots of Stuff for sale in FL
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY116-F24A6FBA618EDEB0EB74E01AC150@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Like Joe in Illinois, I've been on a mission to reorganize my garage, and
prioritize projects.
I have TOO MUCH STUFF!! I need to sell some of it. I want to get back on
my '69 Rambler (American) hot rod project, so I'll be keeping the things
associated with that. I'm also a motorcycle project or two behind (need to
get my panhead built).
For sale:
'65 440 American 2 dr HT; been sitting, body overall good, not rusty but has
an older repaint that is faded, engine tired, but have a rebuilt 195.6 OHV
sitting on a stand for it.
'67 Rebel 770 wagon, 232 - 3 sp, body is dinged here and there, but very
solid; runs good, ~78K miles, new seat upholstry (original pattern from SMS)
- front seat done, rear needs done but have material. 14" AMC magnums w/good
rubber. Can be driven - I drove it down from PA when I bought it, and round
trip Atlanta for last yrs AMO Nats.
'72 Matador Wagon, 258 auto, runs good, rebuilt brakes, body fairly solid
but with some rust issues, great original interior except split in seat
under driver. Drives good. Tired original suspension. No evidence of any
accident repairs.
Engines:
(1)360 - used
(1)360 - rebuilt
(1)195.6 OHV - rebuilt
Non-AMC-Ford 302-disassembled w/new block, pretty complete, E7 heads,
aluminum dual plane intake, roller cam block, stock HO cam.
Transmissions:
(1)727
(2)904/998's - unsure versions, but one came off the back of a 401 I bought
(1)T96 3 sp/OD trans with harness/solenoid
(1)flashomatic from '64 330 American w/195.6
(1)Toploader - older Ford small pattern, decodes as from a '64 Galaxie w/390
(1)Toploader - later ~'77 w/OD 4th
(1)Ford C6 small block pattern
14" ralley wheels- 7 total
NOS rear bumper for the '67 wagon above
other parts too numerous to mention, although all generally related to one
of the cars above, or to my '69.
Some AC parts, although reluctant to get rid of those unless as part of a
deal with one or more of the cars above.
Can mix/n/match parts as you wish, let me know. Package deal anyone? I
need to trim down!!! I haven't tried to list yet on Ebay or other means,
just thought I'd throw it on the list. I'll make a great deal, esp. if
someone wants all or much of it.
I did list some stuff on craigs list a while back, and got offers to pay
$5000 for $500 parts if I'd just mail the extra back...
I would also consider trading for 1 good car that needs nothing but to
drive. Prefer non-performance either 2 door or wagon, but would consider
all. AMC or Mopar, (maybe Jeep, but I don't offroad, so not sure what I'd
like).
All parts in beautiful Mims, FL 32754 (near Kennedy Space Center, Daytona,
Orlando).
email if interested.
Jim Boone
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 10:48:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Rambler Hot Rod
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0610121047170.7205@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 12 Oct 2006, Michael Bailey wrote:
> I'm with John Elle.
> ...
OK, OK, you're right. I suppose I should go and take my
chances. You're right, someone could be dumping somethin I'm
dying for.
I'll take photos.
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 11:46:28 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Rambler Hot Rod
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <28474228.1160678788716.JavaMail.root@web30>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Yeah, GO, all of us who are too far away will be there in Spirit!!!
Notice I squeezed in an AMC reference! Spirit!
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Oct 2006, Michael Bailey wrote:
>
> > I'm with John Elle.
> > ...
>
> OK, OK, you're right. I suppose I should go and take my
> chances. You're right, someone could be dumping somethin I'm
> dying for.
>
> I'll take photos.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 14:56:11 -0400
From: "Savage, Pete" <PSavage@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 71 AMX 401, 4spd for sale
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Eddie Stakes"
<eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<BD261180E6D35F4D9D32F3E44FD3D901047B6A35@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Folks,
Why does one consider this car rare?????
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx [mailto:amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Eddie Stakes
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 8:49 PM
To: baadassGremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: carson44@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AMC-List] 71 AMX 401, 4spd for sale
1971 amx 401 4speed project car.make me an offer.IT HAS MINIMAL SURFACE
RUST FLOORS,TRUNK,AND TROFFS LOOK EXCELANT.MOTOR WAS REBUILT THE CAR HAS NO
FRONT PARTS ENGINE BAY PARTS. IT NEED CARPETS HEADLINER MMATERIAL TRUNK
PARTS DRIVESAFT TO MOTOR PARTS TRANY WAS TAKEN APART AND PARTS LOSTTHE
PROJECT SAT IN A BARN FOR OVER 15 YEARS IT HAD 3 PAINT JOBS AND OF COURSE
NEEDS PAINT IF YOU HAD A DONAR CAR IT WOULD MAKE LIFE EASY BECAUSE OF THE
RAREITY I WOULD NOT PART IT OUT. VIN A1M7982155315 ,BODY ROO8142,MODEL
7179-8,TRIM 161S.E038097 THIS IS ONE OF THOSE FEW PROJECTS THAT WOULD BRING
ALL THE MONEY FINISHED BECAUSE OF THE RARETY,THIS PROJECT HAS THE RIGHT VIN
NUMBERS, AMX 401 4SPEED NO RUST , THE MOTOR WAS SENT TO A MACHINE SHOP.JUST
GATHER THE PARTS AND DO SOME BODYWORK. AGAIN OFFERS CONSIDERED TILL THE END
OF OCTOBER. viktor nafranowicz carson44@xxxxxxxxxxxx 603 483 2222
========================================
anyone interested in the vehicle above give them a shout, thanks,
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.planethoustonamx.com
Email is currently HEAVY
5-12 day reply times, call if important
_______________________________________________
AMC-List mailing list
AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 15:11:10 -0400
From: "Widiker, John D" <john.widiker@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 71 AMX 401, 4spd for sale
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<166687AF0F5A7E48A457F68AE39A6F13061DF82B@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Rarer then a 1969 camaro with a small block. LOL
-----Original Message-----
From: amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx [mailto:amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Savage, Pete
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2006 2:56 PM
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx; Eddie Stakes
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 71 AMX 401, 4spd for sale
Folks,
Why does one consider this car rare?????
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx [mailto:amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Eddie Stakes
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 8:49 PM
To: baadassGremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: carson44@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AMC-List] 71 AMX 401, 4spd for sale
1971 amx 401 4speed project car.make me an offer.IT HAS MINIMAL SURFACE
RUST FLOORS,TRUNK,AND TROFFS LOOK EXCELANT.MOTOR WAS REBUILT THE CAR HAS
NO FRONT PARTS ENGINE BAY PARTS. IT NEED CARPETS HEADLINER MMATERIAL
TRUNK PARTS DRIVESAFT TO MOTOR PARTS TRANY WAS TAKEN APART AND PARTS
LOSTTHE PROJECT SAT IN A BARN FOR OVER 15 YEARS IT HAD 3 PAINT JOBS AND
OF COURSE NEEDS PAINT IF YOU HAD A DONAR CAR IT WOULD MAKE LIFE EASY
BECAUSE OF THE RAREITY I WOULD NOT PART IT OUT. VIN A1M7982155315 ,BODY
ROO8142,MODEL 7179-8,TRIM 161S.E038097 THIS IS ONE OF THOSE FEW PROJECTS
THAT WOULD BRING ALL THE MONEY FINISHED BECAUSE OF THE RARETY,THIS
PROJECT HAS THE RIGHT VIN NUMBERS, AMX 401 4SPEED NO RUST , THE MOTOR
WAS SENT TO A MACHINE SHOP.JUST GATHER THE PARTS AND DO SOME BODYWORK.
AGAIN OFFERS CONSIDERED TILL THE END OF OCTOBER. viktor nafranowicz
carson44@xxxxxxxxxxxx 603 483 2222
========================================
anyone interested in the vehicle above give them a shout, thanks, Eddie
Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.planethoustonamx.com
Email is currently HEAVY
5-12 day reply times, call if important
_______________________________________________
AMC-List mailing list
AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
or go to http://www.amc-list.com
_______________________________________________
AMC-List mailing list
AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
AMC-List mailing list
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http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 34
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