AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 8
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 8
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- Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 12:00:02 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. 1. Re: AMC Hot Rod (Sandwich Maker) (Don Johnson)
2. Re: 2 Americans F/S in Los Angeles. Cheap to good homes. (BUS-ENG)
3. Re: Charity AMX (farna@xxxxxxx)
4. Re: 1. Re: AMC Hot Rod (Sandwich Maker) (Tom Jennings)
5. Re: rambler hot rod (Jamie Smith)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 22:14:31 -0400
From: Don Johnson <donjohnson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 1. Re: AMC Hot Rod (Sandwich Maker)
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <007d01c6e691$a9a35d60$6400a8c0@DONS>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade BUT,,,, by the time you;
1. modify the engine to turn backwards, with the problems with oil pumps, distributors, starters oil seals etc, etc
2. Try to get an axle to last more than 500 miles while running it up side down.
3. Make a transmission that is meant to turn one way, turn the opposite direction.
Maybe the ZF transaxle is still the cheapest way to go.
Sorry, but I've tinkered with engine swaps, trans swaps and diff swaps all my life. Few of them worked as well as my imagination.
If you're sold on midengine, get the engine and transaxle from a front wheel drive car you like and mount it behind the driver.
My $.02
Don
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 22:25:05 -0400
From: "BUS-ENG" <jay@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 2 Americans F/S in Los Angeles. Cheap to good
homes.
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <2a8901c6e693$26656cc0$0400a8c0@ts800>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Mike,
My flight is into LAX at 8:03PM on
Saturday. If we can meet then, great.
US Airways #6507
If you have conflicting plans, I can crash
and meet you in the morning; your
choice.
When you send me your address, I will
have better idea of local transportation.
Thanks,
Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kindle" <mike90066@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 3:27 AM
Subject: [AMC-List] 2 Americans F/S in Los Angeles. Cheap to good homes.
> This is the 65 2dr post and 69 wagon I've posted about over the past
several
> years. I saved them from doom, and now it's time for someone else to take
> them to the next level. Description below. Pictures on photobucket.
> http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m166/65rambler/
> http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m166/65rambler/69RamblerWagon/
>
> $350 each. This weekend only! Then it's ebay time.
> Buyer has to promise not to part or junk the cars.
>
> 65 Rambler American 232-6 Automatic transmission.
> I've had this car for four or five years and it has been the most
dependable
> car I've owned. Always fires right up and has never stranded me. There
has
> always been a small rod-knock like sound on startup that goes away as the
> oil gets going. I always let the car warm up good before driving and this
> noise has remained unchanged since I've had the car.
> The biggest issue is it has developed a new noise, which I think is a flex
> plate going bad but it could be something else. There is an arrhythmic
> noise on startup that quickly goes away and then a rattle when
decelerating
> from high RPM. I've been very gentle since the noise started, only short
> trips.
> The car has the 232 inline six cylinder engine with the 2 barrel Carter
WCD
> carb.
> About the pictures: The car comes with a replacement front right fender
and
> headlight surround for the crunched corner. And I have a replacement
> windshield too. And I have the front hubcaps which I took off when last
> doing the brakes. There are new shoes all around, new wheel cylinders,
and
> master cylinder. The emergency brake works great. Gas gauge works. Radio
> delete.
> I also completely removed, cleaned, and sealed the gas tank with the
POR-15
> kit.
> The car has four new Goodyear Regatta 2 tires.
> I rebuilt the upper trunions and upper control arms with the polyurethane
> kit. The rest of the kit for the lower arms and rear comes with.
> The previous owner took the drivers door panel off to try to fix the
window
> which had left its track. I fixed the window but haven't put the door
panel
> back on. The door panel comes with.
> The car has the usual floor rust under the driver's foot and some under
the
> trunk mat.
> Over the last four years it has driven all over Los Angeles, Northern
> California, and up to Oregon. The previous owner told me "it once
belonged
> to the mother of the guy who played the other guy on The Wonder Years."
>
> 69 Rambler American Station Wagon 232 MT
> Runs and drives. Las Vegas and So.Cal car. Front end rebuilt with
Prothane
> kit and new trunion bearings. New front shocks. Period Frantz oil
filter.
> Rebuilt carb. Rebuilt rear with new bearings and seals. Rebuilt brakes.
> Engine smokes a bit on startup. Rear side doors need help due to bad
hinges
> but a pair of extra doors with good hinges included. Front sway bar. New
> battery and solenoid. Couple of new tires. Needs one more or patch the
> spare. No rust. Good body. Gas tank cleaned and sealed with POR 15 kit.
> New filler hose. New fuel filter in pump. Electric wipers. Recently I
> drove it on a half dozen 50 mile round trips while moving. It was very
good
> to me. About the pics: the color is yellow but for a movie it was brushed
> with blue house paint which should come off easily enough, but some people
> like the patina.
>
> Email or call mike90066@xxxxxxxxxxx or 323-630-9376
>
>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 02:21:38 +0000
From: farna@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Charity AMX
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<100320060221.19706.4521C931000AB9FE00004CFA21602806510E029D0E00@xxxxxxx>
Nick the project HAS NOT FAILED. It did stall for a bit, that's all. And that's not as bad a thing as it appears to be because some needed work got done by professionals. If you look at the "official" web page (http://www.mattsoldcars.com/charityamx/index.html) you'll find that there was a plan for the car. It's not real defined because there's no way it could have been done that way. Each club/group that took the car ran their part as a separate function. The group would get the car, take stock of what needed to be done, then decide what they could accomplish. At that point they solicited help and donations from mostly local sources and also the list members and vendors. They would have an idea of what was needed by following the reports from previous groups, and could even contact the previous on-site coordinator before the car arrived. So they would actually have an idea of what was needed before hand. Each group decided what actions they would "own". At each "stop" one p!
erson t
ook over responsibility as an on-site coordinator to direct the local work.
Considering all that's been done I would call the project more of a success than a failure. The car just needed more work than anticipated. The down-side is if we'd got a car that needed less and was easier to work with (say a nice Hornet, or mid 60s Rambler), it wouldn't bring as much in the end as this car has the potential to. There's no reason to belive this car will bring less than $10k, and it will likely bring a bit more. I estimate in the $12K-$18K range when done -- I've seen the car -- and Dave DeLabio, who also owns an AMX, estimated it should be worth $13K-$15K. So we're in the same ball park. I've noticed that $15K is the average selling price recently for good (but not perfect) AMXs on e-bay and at a few of the other auctions. This isn't a pristine $25K+ car though. It could be taken there after the body work that's been done, but only with another $15K or so put into it. It would need things like selling the rebuilt 360 it has now and locating/building a corr!
ect yea
r 360, for example. For around $30K you'd have a $25-$35K car -- depending on how bad someone wanted it and the auction/market climate at the time of sale, of course.
If there had been specific tasks for each group coordinating would have been tougher, and it would have been hard to pass the car around. By having each group decide how much and exactly what work they would do, it was much easier -- especially on the volunteers. I've worked volunteer projects before. Empowering the volunteers to make their own decisions and allowing them to decide what to be responsible for works far better than directing them and taking all responsibility away from them. Some people like to be that much in control of a project, but I don't think it would have worked for this -- not with passing the car around. the only way to control a project is to have a lot of hands on time, and by nature this project couldn't be done that way.
The project stalled at the body work. Most hobbyists can do mechanical and some detail work, but few are really good at body work. I've only recently gained enough experience and confidence that I would do some work for others, but there is still a lot I would pass on. I would have been able to hang a quarter panel on an undamaged car, but this one had some underlying damage that I (or anyone else without a frame machine!) wouldn't have been able to do -- and wasn't known until the new panel was positioned (that's why the overlap at the top of the panel wasn't right). The most I could have done is patch it up similar to what had been done, though even that could have been done a bit better. It wasn't noticeable visually or driving until the old panel was pulled off, but it was still a patch, not a proper repair. A frame machine was needed for that.
The car has been stored indoors at all locations. It's in Zion Auto Body's shop right now.
There has always been the possibility that something would be done that someone else didn't like. I was willing to "take the heat" if and when necessary when the project started. There wasn't many problems at all until it got to the point major body work was needed. I made a half-hearted attempt to get it moving again last year, but Zion was still willing to continue work on the car during their slow time. After a short attempt I made the decision to leave it over another year. Some will fault me on that, but work was progressing -- albeit slowly, but also by professionals. It was a judgement call. Good or bad it was made, and the car is now ready for paint with minor prep work. Tom beat me to the punch on getting the car moving this fall, but he accomplished something I may have had a hard time doing -- giving the project a good kick start. I had to take some heat, but I don't care -- the goal is to get the car done, and it's moving.
I just heard from Dave DeLabio. Zion wants to touch a few things up over the next week or two before the car moves. Since it will take about that much time for Jack Barncord to arrange time off to pick the car up, it's no big deal. It's actually nice to hear that the guys at Zion want the car to be as ready as possible for the next guy.
--
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars"
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html
(free download available!)
-------------- Original message ----------------------
> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 09:22:23 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Nick ALFANO <71amx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [AMC-List] Charity AMX is moving
>
> This is one of the main reasons I hesitate to get
> involved in an effort like this. One person
> starts/donates a car for a cause. Others decide what
> the cause should be. The car changes hands from one
> person/group to another without a clearly defined
> project plan and management structure. Now the people
> involved are fighting over how it should be handled.
> No matter who was going to do what to the car, there
> should have been a detailed project plan in which who
> ever had the car at a stage in the project, knew what
> needed to be done and that they agreed to own certain
> action items.
>
> Now the car is in primer and not painted. Who knows
> all the details of how the car was stored in primer,
> what is under it and so on. Every body shop I have
> ever dealt with will tell you the same thing. They
> refuse to paint someone else body and primer work.
> Why didn't Zion paint it? Now the car is going to
> John W. (nothing against you John at all) when Tom
> Benvie has said publicly that he will finish all or
> most of the work by the end of the year on a car that
> started out as his. Who owns the title to this car?
> If this car was truly a hobby car being created for
> the good of some charity organization, then there
> should be an appointed steering committee that decides
> the fate of the vehicle and who does what to it not an
> individual (nothing against you Frank just in
> general). The charity(s) identified should have had
> some knowledge of this as well. Every project I have
> ever been on is designed this way and done so for a
> reason. There is a client who has a need, a project
> team that fulfills that need, a project manager that
> oversees the time-line/milestones and project team,
> and a steering committee to make the high level
> decisions. Without this structure, most project will
> fail as this one has so far.
>
> Just my $.02
>
> Nick Alfano
> Alfano Performance
> Kenosha, WI. 53142
> 262-308-1302
> 262-942-8271 after 6pm central and weekends
>
> Frank,
> Based on what appeared to be about a 99.9% approval
> for getting the car
> back
> to Tom Benvie ASAP, to finish for the BJ auction in
> Scottsdale this
> coming
> January, you seem to have made an almost unilateral
> decision to do the
> opposite.?. I'm sure you've had dialogue with Mr.
> Benvie about this in
> the
> last couple of days, so I'm anxious (as I'm sure
> others are) to hear
> his
> comments (from him). If he is on-board with this
> latest news, then I
> guess
> all is good.
>
> Todd (preparing for the deep-freeze) Jesme
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx
> [mailto:amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx] On
> Behalf
> Of farna@xxxxxxx
> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 1:23 PM
> To: AMC-List
> Subject: [AMC-List] Charity AMX is moving!
>
> Thanks to the aide of list members, the Charity AMX is
> moving! John
> Widiker
> will be taking over "on-site coordinator" duties while
> the car as at
> his
> shop in Auburn Hills, MI. He's going to look over the
> car and finish it
> if
> he feels he can. I'm reserving saying more than that
> until he sees the
> car
> and determines exactly what is needed. Jack Barncord
> is planning on
> picking
> up the car and transporting to John. I'm reimbursing
> him for expenses
> from
> the funds I still have reserved for the car. John may
> be asking the
> list for
> help later.
>
> I want to take this opportunity to thank Dave DeLabio
> for seeing that
> the
> body work got done to the car. It's in primer and
> ready for paint, will
> need
> just a little block sanding and touch-up before color
> is sprayed on.
> There
> was a bit more body work than anticipated, and it took
> longer than
> expected,
> but everything has turned out for the best. Zion Auto
> Body did a great
> job!
>
> With any luck this car will get completed over the
> winter and be
> auctioned
> early in 2007!
>
> --
> Frank Swygert
> Publisher, "American Motors Cars"
> Magazine (AMC)
> For all AMC enthusiasts
> http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html
> (free download available!)
>
>
> Alfano Performance
> Kenosha, WI. 53142
> 262-308-1302
> 262-942-8271 after 6pm central and weekends
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:31:13 -0400 (EDT)
> From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
> Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod
> To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Message-ID: <200610021631.k92GVDu02268@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
> " From: Peter Marano <PMarano@xxxxxxxxx>
> "
> "
> " >Except for the oil pump and distributor (vacc. advance,
> " >lubrication), I can't think of a reason not to run the engine
> " >the other direction (requires new cam of course).
> "
> " []
> "
> " The new cam would require a reverse rotation distributor drive gear (and
> " driven gear) which would turn the distributor and oil pump in the
> " 'normal' direction. This would allow the thrust on the distributor drive
> " to hold the camshaft in the block. Reverse rotation SBC are common
> " enough that an engine builder should know what to do. Is the SBC cam
> " gear the same as the inline AMC six? If a cam grinder can't cut the
> " reverse rotation gear on an AMC cam a gear drive would reverse the
> " rotation of the cam.
>
> dunno about the sbc, but the chevy inline 6 gear is cut the other way
> - the chevy cam is gear driven - and it fits. remember the hei swap!
> all you'd have to do is get the cam cut right [gear and all] and a
> reverse rotation starter. and if they exist for sbcs it should be
> doable for this engine.
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Andrew Hay the genius nature
> internet rambler is to see what all have seen
> adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 09:44:53 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod
> To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0610020942460.19549@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, Peter Marano wrote:
>
> > Bearing journals are polished in the direction of rotation (or at least
> > they used to be). The oil seal journal on the rear of the crankshaft
> > has directional knurling. I think the front seal has a directional
> > pattern molded in.
>
> This is the sort of detail that kills well-meaning projects... :-)
> >
> > The new cam would require a reverse rotation distributor drive gear (and
> > driven gear) which would turn the distributor and oil pump in the
> > 'normal' direction.
>
> That was my thought.
>
> > ... a gear drive would reverse the
> > rotation of the cam.
>
> And that's probably the best solution of all.
>
> I really doubt I'll even think more on a reverse rotation
> motor, but it's interesting, and thanks for the tips on the
> subtle stuff!
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
>
> End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 6
> **************************************
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 21:09:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 1. Re: AMC Hot Rod (Sandwich Maker)
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0610022059250.19549@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, Don Johnson wrote:
> I don't want to rain on anyone's parade BUT,,,, by the time you;
> 1. modify the engine to turn backwards, with the problems with oil pumps, distributors, starters oil seals etc, etc
> 2. Try to get an axle to last more than 500 miles while running it up side down.
> 3. Make a transmission that is meant to turn one way, turn the opposite direction.
> Maybe the ZF transaxle is still the cheapest way to go.
Yeah yeah, parades occasionally get rain :-) Can't dismiss
ideas you don't invite in for dinner though! Your point is not
lost however.
1 seems totally doable; 2 I would never consider; 3 seems not
a problem. But pointless complexity is well pointless..
Plain old front motor, rear drive rod is probably the simple
way to go for a simple rod.
> Sorry, but I've tinkered with engine swaps, trans swaps and diff swaps all my life. Few of them worked as well as my imagination.
But lots of people build hot rods; sa far as matchin up odd
parts goes, it's a lot easier than fitting "wrong" parts into
a factory car.
> If you're sold on midengine, get the engine and transaxle from
> a front wheel drive car you like and mount it behind the driver.
Part of me wants to make a hot rod, or possibly just a rat rod
out of my parts car (I'm gonna chop'n'scrap it anyways); this
would bne more traditional. Another part of me wants to build a
car around my Navarro-built turbo six; this really wants to be
rear engined due to the huge-a** 5" exhaust pipe at head level.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 21:22:03 -0700
From: "Jamie Smith" <oconner51@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <BAY109-DAV130D9C39A031F25AE87CF6BF1C0@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Yeah, but what's fun and unique about that? =
Jamie Smith
Spokane, WA
You are unique, just like everyone else.
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 23:00:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx<mailto:tomj@xxxxxxx>>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod
(The most obvious solution of course is to just make a front
engine, rear drive hot rod, same as everyone else. :-)
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