Re: [AMC-List] Charity AMX

[farna@xxxxxxx]

Nick the project HAS NOT FAILED. It did stall for a bit, that's all. And that's not as bad a thing as it appears to be because some needed work got done by professionals. If you look at the "official" web page (http://www.mattsoldcars.com/charityamx/index.html) you'll find that there was a plan for the car. It's not real defined because there's no way it could have been done that way. Each club/group that took the car ran their part as a separate function. The group would get the car, take stock of what needed to be done, then decide what they could accomplish. At that point they solicited help and donations from mostly local sources and also the list members and vendors. They would have an idea of what was needed by following the reports from previous groups, and could even contact the previous on-site coordinator before the car arrived. So they would actually have an idea of what was needed before hand. Each group decided what actions they would "own". At each "stop" one p!
 erson t
ook over responsibility as an on-site coordinator to direct the local work. 

Considering all that's been done I would call the project more of a success than a failure. The car just needed more work than anticipated. The down-side is if we'd got a car that needed less and was easier to work with (say a nice Hornet, or mid 60s Rambler), it wouldn't bring as much in the end as this car has the potential to. There's no reason to belive this car will bring less than $10k, and it will likely bring a bit more. I estimate in the $12K-$18K range when done -- I've seen the car -- and Dave DeLabio, who also owns an AMX, estimated it should be worth $13K-$15K. So we're in the same ball park. I've noticed that $15K is the average selling price recently for good (but not perfect) AMXs on e-bay and at a few of the other auctions. This isn't a pristine $25K+ car though. It could be taken there after the body work that's been done, but only with another $15K or so put into it.  It would need things like selling the rebuilt 360 it has now and locating/building a corr!
 ect yea
r 360, for example. For around $30K you'd have a $25-$35K car -- depending on how bad someone wanted it and the auction/market climate at the time of sale, of course. 

If there had been specific tasks for each group coordinating would have been tougher, and it would have been hard to pass the car around. By having each group decide how much and exactly what work they would do, it was much easier -- especially on the volunteers. I've worked volunteer projects before. Empowering the volunteers to make their own decisions and allowing them to decide what to be responsible for works far better than directing them and taking all responsibility away from them. Some people like to be that much in control of a project, but I don't think it would have worked for this -- not with passing the car around. the only way to control a project is to have a lot of hands on time, and by nature this project couldn't be done that way. 

The project stalled at the body work. Most hobbyists can do mechanical and some detail work, but few are really good at body work. I've only recently gained enough experience and confidence that I would do some work for others, but there is still a lot I would pass on. I would have been able to hang a quarter panel on an undamaged car, but this one had some underlying damage that I (or anyone else without a frame machine!) wouldn't have been able to do -- and wasn't known until the new panel was positioned (that's why the overlap at the top of the panel wasn't right). The most I could have done is patch it up similar to what had been done, though even that could have been done a bit better. It wasn't noticeable visually or driving until the old panel was pulled off, but it was still a patch, not a proper repair. A frame machine was needed for that.

The car has been stored indoors at all locations. It's in Zion Auto Body's shop right now. 

There has always been the possibility that something would be done that someone else didn't like. I was willing to "take the heat" if and when necessary when the project started. There wasn't many problems at all until it got to the point major body work was needed. I made a half-hearted attempt to get it moving again last year, but Zion was still willing to continue work on the car during their slow time. After a short attempt I made the decision to leave it over another year. Some will fault me on that, but work was progressing -- albeit slowly, but also by professionals. It was a judgement call. Good or bad it was made, and the car is now ready for paint with minor prep work. Tom beat me to the punch on getting the car moving this fall, but he accomplished something I may have had a hard time doing -- giving the project a good kick start. I had to take some heat, but I don't care -- the goal is to get the car done, and it's moving. 

I just heard from Dave DeLabio. Zion wants to touch a few things up over the next week or two before the car moves. Since it will take about that much time for Jack Barncord to arrange time off to pick the car up, it's no big deal. It's actually nice to hear that the guys at Zion want the car to be as ready as possible for the next guy. 

--
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html
(free download available!)

 -------------- Original message ----------------------

> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 09:22:23 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Nick ALFANO <71amx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [AMC-List] Charity AMX is moving

> 
> This is one of the main reasons I hesitate to get
> involved in an effort like this.  One person
> starts/donates a car for a cause.  Others decide what
> the cause should be.  The car changes hands from one
> person/group to another without a clearly defined
> project plan and management structure.  Now the people
> involved are fighting over how it should be handled. 
> No matter who was going to do what to the car, there
> should have been a detailed project plan in which who
> ever had the car at a stage in the project, knew what
> needed to be done and that they agreed to own certain
> action items.  
> 
> Now the car is in primer and not painted.  Who knows
> all the details of how the car was stored in primer,
> what is under it and so on.  Every body shop I have
> ever dealt with will tell you the same thing.  They
> refuse to paint someone else body and primer work. 
> Why didn't Zion paint it?  Now the car is going to
> John W. (nothing against you John at all) when Tom
> Benvie has said publicly that he will finish all or
> most of the work by the end of the year on a car that
> started out as his.  Who owns the title to this car? 
> If this car was truly a hobby car being created for
> the good of some charity organization, then there
> should be an appointed steering committee that decides
> the fate of the vehicle and who does what to it not an
> individual (nothing against you Frank just in
> general).  The charity(s) identified should have had
> some knowledge of this as well.  Every project I have
> ever been on is designed this way and done so for a
> reason.  There is a client who has a need, a project
> team that fulfills that need, a project manager that
> oversees the time-line/milestones and project team,
> and a steering committee to make the high level
> decisions.  Without this structure, most project will
> fail as this one has so far.
> 
> Just my $.02
> 
> Nick Alfano
> Alfano Performance
> Kenosha, WI. 53142
> 262-308-1302
> 262-942-8271 after 6pm central and weekends
> 
> Frank,
> Based on what appeared to be about a 99.9% approval
> for getting the car 
> back
> to Tom Benvie ASAP, to finish for the BJ auction in
> Scottsdale this 
> coming
> January, you seem to have made an almost unilateral
> decision to do the
> opposite.?.  I'm sure you've had dialogue with Mr.
> Benvie about this in 
> the
> last couple of days, so I'm anxious (as I'm sure
> others are) to hear 
> his
> comments (from him).  If he is on-board with this
> latest news, then I 
> guess
> all is good.
> 
> Todd (preparing for the deep-freeze) Jesme
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx
> [mailto:amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx] On 
> Behalf
> Of farna@xxxxxxx
> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 1:23 PM
> To: AMC-List
> Subject: [AMC-List] Charity AMX is moving!
> 
> Thanks to the aide of list members, the Charity AMX is
> moving! John 
> Widiker
> will be taking over "on-site coordinator" duties while
> the car as at 
> his
> shop in Auburn Hills, MI. He's going to look over the
> car and finish it 
> if
> he feels he can. I'm reserving saying more than that
> until he sees the 
> car
> and determines exactly what is needed. Jack Barncord
> is planning on 
> picking
> up the car and transporting to John. I'm reimbursing
> him for expenses 
> from
> the funds I still have reserved for the car. John may
> be asking the 
> list for
> help later.
> 
> I want to take this opportunity to thank Dave DeLabio
> for seeing that 
> the
> body work got done to the car. It's in primer and
> ready for paint, will 
> need
> just a little block sanding and touch-up before color
> is sprayed on. 
> There
> was a bit more body work than anticipated, and it took
> longer than 
> expected,
> but everything has turned out for the best. Zion Auto
> Body did a great 
> job! 
> 
> With any luck this car will get completed over the
> winter and be 
> auctioned
> early in 2007! 
> 
> --
> Frank Swygert
> Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
> Magazine (AMC)
> For all AMC enthusiasts
> http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html
> (free download available!)
> 
> 
> Alfano Performance
> Kenosha, WI. 53142
> 262-308-1302
> 262-942-8271 after 6pm central and weekends
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 12
> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:31:13 -0400 (EDT)
> From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
> Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod
> To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Message-ID: <200610021631.k92GVDu02268@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> 
> " From: Peter Marano <PMarano@xxxxxxxxx>
> " 
> " 
> " >Except for the oil pump and distributor (vacc. advance,
> " >lubrication), I can't think of a reason not to run the engine
> " >the other direction (requires new cam of course).
> " 
> " []
> " 
> " The new cam would require a reverse rotation distributor drive gear (and 
> " driven gear) which would turn the distributor and oil pump in the 
> " 'normal' direction. This would allow the thrust on the distributor drive 
> " to hold the camshaft in the block.  Reverse rotation SBC are common 
> " enough that an engine builder should know what to do.  Is the SBC cam 
> " gear the same as the inline AMC six?  If a cam grinder can't cut the 
> " reverse rotation gear on an AMC cam a gear drive would reverse the 
> " rotation of the cam.
> 
> dunno about the sbc, but the chevy inline 6 gear is cut the other way
> - the chevy cam is gear driven - and it fits.  remember the hei swap!
> all you'd have to do is get the cam cut right [gear and all] and a
> reverse rotation starter.  and if they exist for sbcs it should be
> doable for this engine.
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Andrew Hay                                  the genius nature
> internet rambler                            is to see what all have seen
> adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx                       and think what none thought
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 13
> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 09:44:53 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod
> To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0610020942460.19549@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> 
> On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, Peter Marano wrote:
> 
> > Bearing journals are polished in the direction of rotation (or at least 
> > they used to be).  The oil seal journal on the rear of the crankshaft 
> > has directional knurling.  I think the front seal has a directional 
> > pattern molded in.
> 
> This is the sort of detail that kills well-meaning projects... :-)
> > 
> > The new cam would require a reverse rotation distributor drive gear (and 
> > driven gear) which would turn the distributor and oil pump in the 
> > 'normal' direction. 
> 
> That was my thought.
> 
> > ... a gear drive would reverse the 
> > rotation of the cam.
> 
> And that's probably the best solution of all.
> 
> I really doubt I'll even think more on a reverse rotation
> motor, but it's interesting, and thanks for the tips on the
> subtle stuff!
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
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> 
> 
> End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 6
> **************************************


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