AMC-List Digest, Vol 8, Issue 53
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
AMC-List Digest, Vol 8, Issue 53
- From: amc-list-request@xxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 19:37:53 +0000
Send AMC-List mailing list submissions to
amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
amc-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
You can reach the person managing the list at
amc-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxx
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of AMC-List digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Eagle Premier (Rhett Butler)
2. Re: Eagle Premier (Mark Price)
3. Re: Asking for a Shot - Charity AMX - (Mark Price)
4. Re: Charity AMX (farna@xxxxxxx)
5. Re: Charity AMX (farna@xxxxxxx)
6. gears for a 65 Classic (Kerry Flanagan)
7. Re: gears for a 65 Classic (Mark Price)
8. Re: Charity AMX (Michael Bailey)
9. Re: 1988 Eagle Premier (farna@xxxxxxx)
10. Re: gears for a 65 Classic (farna@xxxxxxx)
11. Re: 1988 Eagle Premier - Last of the Breed - (Tom Jennings)
12. Re: Trans Go > Silicone is NO GO < (Tom Jennings)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:14:37 -0700
From: "Rhett Butler" <amc.inline.six@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Eagle Premier
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<87f2c1950609281014y3da74c39he32a981dbb4e7514@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Are you guys sure? The AMC 2.5 seemed to fit in there just fine. Would it be
really all that much trouble, since the Cherokee, Comanche, and Wrangler
took both?
Again, I have no idea, so it's a legitimate question. I understand that the
4.0 is longer than the 2.5 (and most likely, significantly longer than a
90-degree V6).
But again, this is just a pipe dream, anyway. As much as I love AMCs (and
believe me, I do), I find myself almost as interested in the cars it built
and sold for the company that cannibalized them. If I could find a Medallion
in good shape, I'd take it over the Premier.
On 9/28/06, Sandwich Maker <adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> " From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
> "
> " Rhet
> " The Eagle Premier was also sold as the Dodge Monoco before it finally
> " died off. The engine was also used by Volvo and I believe Citroen.
>
> peugeot and renault. it was known as the 'prv' engine. trivia: it's
> a 90* v6 because it was originally designed in the late '60s as a v8,
> but as production approached the first gas crisis hit and a quick
> modification ensued. afaik the original v8 version was never made.
>
> as i said in another posting, i've heard that prv sold the engine to
> hyundai and that korean quality is higher.
>
> " I would imagine that there is absolutely no capability of installing a
> " 4.0 in the thing as it is a front wheel drive automobile so room even
> " with the fact that it is a North South installation space is certainly
> " going to be a premium.
>
> i'd agree. this car has little in common with other amcs, much more
> with other renaults. with enough money you can do anything, but this
> would be a substantial re-engineering of the drivetrain and probably
> chassis.
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Andrew Hay the genius nature
> internet rambler is to see what all have seen
> adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:21:04 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Eagle Premier
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <21218057.1159464064561.JavaMail.root@web25>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
AMC four uses a GM V-6 bell bolt pattern.
4.0L is different. If you can bolt the four in place of the existing six, I don't know what pattern the existing trans is for the stock V-6, you could move over to the four cyl and thro a turbo on it. It would scoot very well indeed!
Lot of work though!
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- Rhett Butler <amc.inline.six@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Are you guys sure? The AMC 2.5 seemed to fit in there just fine. Would it be
> really all that much trouble, since the Cherokee, Comanche, and Wrangler
> took both?
>
> Again, I have no idea, so it's a legitimate question. I understand that the
> 4.0 is longer than the 2.5 (and most likely, significantly longer than a
> 90-degree V6).
>
> But again, this is just a pipe dream, anyway. As much as I love AMCs (and
> believe me, I do), I find myself almost as interested in the cars it built
> and sold for the company that cannibalized them. If I could find a Medallion
> in good shape, I'd take it over the Premier.
>
>
> On 9/28/06, Sandwich Maker <adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > " From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
> > "
> > " Rhet
> > " The Eagle Premier was also sold as the Dodge Monoco before it finally
> > " died off. The engine was also used by Volvo and I believe Citroen.
> >
> > peugeot and renault. it was known as the 'prv' engine. trivia: it's
> > a 90* v6 because it was originally designed in the late '60s as a v8,
> > but as production approached the first gas crisis hit and a quick
> > modification ensued. afaik the original v8 version was never made.
> >
> > as i said in another posting, i've heard that prv sold the engine to
> > hyundai and that korean quality is higher.
> >
> > " I would imagine that there is absolutely no capability of installing a
> > " 4.0 in the thing as it is a front wheel drive automobile so room even
> > " with the fact that it is a North South installation space is certainly
> > " going to be a premium.
> >
> > i'd agree. this car has little in common with other amcs, much more
> > with other renaults. with enough money you can do anything, but this
> > would be a substantial re-engineering of the drivetrain and probably
> > chassis.
> > ________________________________________________________________________
> > Andrew Hay the genius nature
> > internet rambler is to see what all have seen
> > adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
> > _______________________________________________
> > AMC-List mailing list
> > AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
> >
> > or go to http://www.amc-list.com
> >
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:25:38 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Asking for a Shot - Charity AMX -
To: hh7x@xxxxxxxxxxx, amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <4157876.1159464338100.JavaMail.root@web25>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
You have my opinion.
If the hauler wants a return he can haul the 65 back to me if it happens quickly.
Andrew needs it out of his yard!
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- Brien Tourville <hh7x@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
> Thomas M. Benvie - quote:
>
> The car can be done in short order.
>
> A number of our local guys have
> award
> winning cars,
> have done a number of restorations, and in all honesty are
> ready for the challenge.
>
> - if we miss the Jan. auction, when is the next
> one?
>
> People have offered to pay for transport now.
>
>
> === ===
>
>
> [!] * Kan't beat that with a stick -
> Let's Kick-iT !
> I vote to ship that car ASAp - !
> Lock & Load!
>
> Who's With Me ?
>
> =Bt=
> milnersXcoupe
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 17:26:22 +0000
From: farna@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Charity AMX
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<092820061726.12965.451C05BE00006833000032A521602807410E029D0E00@xxxxxxx>
I responded to Tom Benvie's post off-list. I don't think his response should have been on the list in the first place, as it was mostly directed to/at me. If you want to read it in full go back in this thread and do so, but I'd appreciate no comments on the list as that would just induce a "flame war" that I'd rather not see. I'm not trying to hide anything from list members, just not cluttering the list with what appears to me to be posts of a personal nature.
I've asked Tom to respond to me in personal e-mail. It's apparent, at least to me, that he and I have an issue that needs to be worked out between us. We'll get that resolved THEN post something to the list on where the project is going. I don't see the point in cluttering the list with this issue right now when it's mostly he and I. I've suggested an avenue of resolution if one of us can't convince the other of the proper way to proceed from here. Hopefully everything will be resolved in a civil manner with no hurt feelings or other repurcussions. That's the goal anyway!
--
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars"
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html
(free download available!)
-------------- Original message ----------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:52:02 +0000
From: tbenvie@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Charity AMX
Frank, you are killing me!
"I'm NOT going to get upset with you or your last post."
Good, I didn't make anything up, so whjy would you?
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 17:37:13 +0000
From: farna@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Charity AMX
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<092820061737.23996.451C08490009F8C800005DBC21602807410E029D0E00@xxxxxxx>
On second thought Jock, I was hasty in making such a statement, I apologize to those I've offended. I know you've printed some articles on the car in the NAMDRA publication and there have been donations from mid-westerners. Sometimes we all stick our foot in our mouth, and I can taste a bit of leather right now...
After a lot more consideration I think the main reason it was hard to get someone to take the car after Kenosha is due to the nature of the work that was needed, mainly body work. That's not a skill to many hobbyist have. I'll do some of my own work, but am a bit reluctant to do it for others. All knew that it needed a quarter panel, and R&R of a quarter isn't an easy task. The southern guys did all the more familiar mechanical work.
There is a bit of disagreement on where the car should go next. It doesn't have to be a big mess, and I've taken steps to straighten the seeming mess out (see my previous post on this subject). I'm making every effort to get the conflict resolved in a civil manner.
--
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars"
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html
(free download available!)
-------------- Original message ----------------------
> Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:15:51 -0500
> From: namdra@xxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [AMC-List] {AMC-List} Charity AMX
>
> Frank said - >I have to tell you, I'm, pissed off at the mid west AMC
> enthusiasts in general.>
>
> Frank, this wasn't very nice of you and I feel you should apologize to
> the mid-west AMC'ers. I know a lot of them have done work on the car,
> donated cash and items for it, and even some of them didn't get credit
> for their efforts. Namdra has done several articles on the car, donated
> to it, helped getting donations and publicity for it at the big Kenosha
> meet and I was going to try and get Steve Schall (now passed) to do some
> work on it but it ended up in DeLabio's hands and in the Zion body shop.
> I would be willing to do another article on it in NAMDRA's newsletter to
> help get the project done if the mess it now sounds like on the list and
> forum is straightened out.
>
> Jock Jocewicz - President/Editor NAMDRA NAMDRA@xxxxxxxx
> 8537 Antioch Rd., Salem, WI 53168 (262) 843-4326
> JOIN NAMDRA, the best AMC club around!!
> AMO#19, NAMDRA#46, AMCRC#974, NHRA#41915, IHRA#6766
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:45:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kerry Flanagan <kflan5621@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] gears for a 65 Classic
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060928174540.11111.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I know this isn't an easy find, but I'm looking for a set of 3:55 gears
for a 65 AMC Classic model 20 rear end. The general consensus is that the
1) pinion is different on torque tube model 20s
2) that gear ratio was only found on T-10 equipped Marlins/Classics
The two vendors I've talked to think I'm insane to run 3.55's behind an
automatic. To me, 3.55 is a good street car ratio and is not too high.
Opinions? I'd probably be running 3000-3200 at 60 mph?
Even better would be a T-10 torque tube donor car, but I'm under the
impression that I have a better chance at nailing Paris Hilton than
finding one of those.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:51:54 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] gears for a 65 Classic
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Kerry Flanagan <kflan5621@xxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <12385431.1159465914113.JavaMail.root@web25>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
3:55's are a bit much for the highway on long trips.
If you run primarily around town. They are an excellent gear.
You can find RPM calculators by doing a search online. Just enter your tire size or diameter and gear ratio and it will give you a close RPM. It will be a bit on the low side due to converter slippage on the automatic.
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- Kerry Flanagan <kflan5621@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I know this isn't an easy find, but I'm looking for a set of 3:55 gears
> for a 65 AMC Classic model 20 rear end. The general consensus is that the
> 1) pinion is different on torque tube model 20s
> 2) that gear ratio was only found on T-10 equipped Marlins/Classics
>
> The two vendors I've talked to think I'm insane to run 3.55's behind an
> automatic. To me, 3.55 is a good street car ratio and is not too high.
> Opinions? I'd probably be running 3000-3200 at 60 mph?
>
> Even better would be a T-10 torque tube donor car, but I'm under the
> impression that I have a better chance at nailing Paris Hilton than
> finding one of those.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:11:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Bailey <route66rambler@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Charity AMX
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060928181132.73784.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I have absolutely no involvement whatsoever with the Charity AMX, except possibly as a sidelines-sitting silent cheeleader.
Having said that, I am going to offer an unbiased, outsider's opinion of what I have read recently on this car.
1) I think everyone, including Frank and Tom, should be congratulated on what HAS been accomplished so far.
2) What's done is done, too late to undo. The car at this point is what it is. Recriminations should be saved for the start of the "next project". Sort of a resume.
3) This whole situation, especially a huge accusatory confrontation in public, carries with it the potential for ANOTHER huge black eye for AMC.
4) Tom is right in that the project should be perceived as an AMC community decision.
Given the above, I feel that if a group of people with the (AMX-specific) experience and qualificatons to finish it in one intense run is available, it must be sent to them. As I said, I have no involvement. I am basing my opinion(and that's what it is, nothing more) on a desire to see it done, and receiving a maximum return.
If these guys can have it ready for Scottsdale, it should be done. The Barrett-Jackson in Scottsdale in January opens the big season, receives by far the most exposure, and it's no secret that the Mecca of Muscle Car Values is Barret-Jackson in January. The biggest return on all fronts will be realized there.
It's nothing personal, for or against any one person. My judgement:
SHIP IT TO BOSTON!
m.
Send flaming, scathing, destructive hate mail to:
Michael Bailey
route66rambler@yahoo,com
(602) 380-6552
11435 West Buckey Road A104-132
Avondale AZ 85323
Or, avoid the rush.and call!
---------------------------------
Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 18:18:20 +0000
From: farna@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 1988 Eagle Premier
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<092820061818.7088.451C11EC0000BDFE00001BB021602807410E029D0E00@xxxxxxx>
I beleive the AC compressor is on the right side, top. The engine is the PRV V-6 -- Peugeot/Renault/Volvo. It was started as a joint project with the same block in different displacements. There were one and two cam heads, IIRC, and different induction systems (intakes) made by each company. Citroen and Peugeot merged, so the engine was used in Citroen's as John Elle pointed out. Volvo sold their portion of the venture at some point to the other two, and Hyundai later bought the rights to the engine (if not the tooling also -- I'm not sure if Peugeot/Citroen and Renault still use a version of it or not) and improved it. Parts may not interchange with the Hyundai unless they did buy the tooling, and even then some changes would have been made.
The bolt pattern on the transaxle is probably similar or the same as the GM front drive V-6 and Caddy front drive V-8. The reason I say this is that the AMC four uses that bolt pattern and was intended for use in the car, though I have never seen a four cylinder version other than the initial photos. May have been a different bell housing for it though. I seriously doubt a 4.0L would bolt up to it in any case. As pointed out, there's not enough room to use the transaxle and a front mount 4.0L. You'd have to convert to rear wheel drive. That could be done, but would require a bit of cutting and welding for a trans and driveshaft tunnel. The front suspension would likely work fine without half shafts, but there may be interference problems with the steering. It would be interesting, to say the least!
One problem common with all Renault products at the time is electrical connector corrosion. Most of the connections are tin plated and will corrode over time. Pull all the connectors and spray with contact cleaner even if it's running good. You can't see the corrosion, but there is enough to subtly change computer signals and possibly cause the car to not run at its best. Other than that the engines are pretty reliable. The sealed coolant system can give problems. Air must be bled out correctly and any leaks, even undetectable air leaks, will cause it to run hot. A crack in the plastic bottle with the fill cap (a pressure cap like on a radiator) is hard to trace and will cause over heating. The system won't hold adequate pressure but the leak may be undetectable. Early 4.0L Jeep Cherokees had the same problem as they aged.
--
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars"
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html
(free download available!)
-------------- Original message ----------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 19:12:16 -0700
From: "Rhett Butler" <amc.inline.six@xxxxxxxxx>
Well, the Premier has a longitudinally-mounted engine. It's not transverse,
like most FWD cars. So it might not be in that evil of a place. However, if
I get the car, I will hunt high and low to find a manual on it so that I can
repair whatever's reasonable myself.
Does anybody know how possible a 4.0 conversion is? Since the car has
absolutely no value at all, when I get enough dough to play with it, I might
try to turn it into a more proper AMC by changing out the Eagle badges for
AMC ones, and maybe putting Concord or Ambassador emblems on it,
and installing a 4.0 would be nice. I'd probably try to find some '91-92
taillights as well because I like them better.
But that's IF I get this car, and IF I ever see fit to play around with it.
Just thoughts bouncing around in my head.
Thanks for the suggestions!
Peace,
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 19:35:32 +0000
From: farna@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] gears for a 65 Classic
To: kflan5621@xxxxxxxxx, amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx (AMC-List)
Message-ID:
<092820061935.26750.451C240400009E890000687E21602807410E029D0E00@xxxxxxx>
I just pulled the 64-66 TSMs. 3.54 gears were standard for all 65 232/287/327 equipped cars with manual transmission. Remember, even the 232 used a model 20 in the big cars. The auto came with 3.15 for the 232 and 327, 2.87 with the 287. So a 3.54 gear is used in all stick shift cars. The 3.15 might be your best bet. The 3.54 won't be to high at 60 mph, just don't plan on crusing much faster. You can see what your actual cruise speed/rpm would be by using the calculators at www.4lo.com. Just enter "1" (for 1:1) where it asks for a transfer case ratio. Tire sizing is a good way to fine tune cruise rpm.
I'd try 3.15s with the auto. I don't think you will find anything between a 3.15 and 3.54. I've driven a Classic with a 327 and 3.15 gears. That's a pretty good combo! The Ambo was the "sporty" car for AMC back then, the Classic the "economy V-8". That's why the 2.87 in the Classic and 3.15 in the Ambo. Not many people who bought the bigger engine cared about gas!
--
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars"
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html
(free download available!)
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:35:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 1988 Eagle Premier - Last of the Breed -
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0609281233500.19549@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006, Brien Tourville wrote:
> Since it is the end of the line Eagle - and in 20 years it'll be
> featured as a lone survivor of a forgotten merger of some car
> makers of note - I'd coat the undercarriage with
> corroless & see how long I could keep the car in decent shape!
>
> thats' my vote anyway........ these are the future 'Hash' cars!
I'd like to 2nd that -- though I recognize I'm not offering to
hold onto it for Rhett for 20 years :-)
It is true though -- the vague dis-ease of personally maintaining
the multi-make complexity of the thing is what will make it
interesting one day, like Packard-Hawks and all that stuff. It's
historically a strange and interesting car!
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 12:37:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Trans Go > Silicone is NO GO <
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0609281237050.19549@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On Thu, 28 Sep 2006, Jim Blair wrote:
> Just a quick thought on the pan gasket: One from a 42RE or TJ 999 should fit.
> (factory rubber lifetime ones)
Ooh, good lead. Can U give me any random car make/model/year
that contained said trannies?
-------------- next part --------------
_______________________________________________
AMC-List mailing list
AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
AMC-List mailing list
AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 8, Issue 53
***************************************
Back to the Home of the AMC Gremlin