AMC-List Digest, Vol 8, Issue 37
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 8, Issue 37
- From: amc-list-request@xxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:13:00 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: AMC-List Digest, Vol 8, Issue 35 (Sandwich Maker)
2. Re: 4.0L in Eagle (farna@xxxxxxx)
3. torqu tube Q??? (J Johnson)
4. Re: 4.0L in Eagle (Sandwich Maker)
5. Re: torqu tube Q??? (Mark Price)
6. Re: 4.0L in Eagle ( Russell T. Neyhart)
7. Re: torqu tube Q??? (Colin J Brodsky)
8. Re: torqu tube Q??? (Tom Jennings)
9. Re: torqu tube Q??? (Tom Jennings)
10. amcEagleNest (Brien Tourville)
11. Re: you two enjoy this (Mahoney, John)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:45:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AMC-List Digest, Vol 8, Issue 35
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200609211345.k8LDj6Y12804@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "Keleigh Hardie" <keleigh3000@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"
"
" The hardest time I had was relocating the CPS. If you use a Jeep trans or
" bellhousing, you won't have to do this. I kept the TorqueFlyte, and ended up
" using a kit from Hesco to move the CPS to the front pulley.
a couple of years ago, wranglers finally got a 4sp auto. but before
that, whether hydraulic or electronic controlled, they had a 3sp tf
just like the eagle's. if your eagle has an auto that should move
wranglers to the top of your donor list.
wranglers also have a centered radiator fan, like the eagle but unlike
the cherokee.
" The axles have been fine. The rear is getting a bit noisy, but there are
" 180,000 reasons for that besides the engine swap. I've purchased a Cherokee
" rear axle, and will be able to tell you in a few months what's involved in
" that swap. I do know that the shock mounting stagger is opposite, so I'll
" have to change that. Basically, the AMC 15 is the same axle as the Dana 35,
" but the Dana has one piece axles, and is stronger.
a caveat that just occurs to me: the eagle has 10" rear drums, but
'90-up dana 35s have 9". otoh a swap to 10" or even 11" brakes should
be possible as the '90-up d35 housing has mopar-standard flanges.
the '90-up also retain their axle shafts with c-clips; the '84-9
don't. are those shafts also one piece?
all the other axles that cherokees and wranglers can have use 10"
brakes. btw for axle swap potential the earlier yj wrangler is leaf
sprung but the tj has a 4-link with coils out back.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:03:09 +0000
From: farna@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 4.0L in Eagle
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<092120061403.3795.45129B9C000F13B200000ED321602807410E029D0E00@xxxxxxx>
The later model HO 4.0L (91-05) is basically the same as the early one. There is no knock sensor so you don't have to worry about that. You can modify the bell housing and CPS and use a 4.0L flywheel or flexplate. The AW4 flexplate would need to be drilled for a 998 torque converter, and check fitting to see that it doesn't push the converter in the trans to far. I think a Chrysler trans (32RE?) was used on Wranglers and/or Grand Cherokees with a 4.0L. That flexplate will work with a 998 (the trans is an electronic version of a 998).
Possible problems:
The late model intake may not clear the power brake booster -- it will be close! I've seen one Eagle with a late model intake. If the engine shakes due to a fouled plug the intake will tap the power booster. The booster must be the small diameter type used on the latest model Eagles. I don't know when the small one was first used, but early Eagles have a larger diameter booster.
Another problem might be the exhaust manifold. The late exhaust exits closer to the center of the engine, the 87-90 exits between cylinder 4 and 5.
The good news is that the earlier intake and exhaust will fit the late engine. You'll have to make an adapter for the late throttle body to early intake, but that just requires a 1/4" thick aluminum plate about 4" square and should be easy to make with a drill press and hack saw.
--
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars"
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html
(free download available!)
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Keleigh Hardie"
I've been driving a 4.0 Eagle for a couple of years now. Overall, it's
worked very well. Here's what I can tell you, at least as far as using a
87-90 Renix equipped Cherokee 4.0. If you're using a HO or later, I don't
know about that...
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 07:57:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: J Johnson <imfatdad@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] torqu tube Q???
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060921145713.61934.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I received the following inquiry from a guy on another message baord I
frequent. I have never been into a torque tube, figured someone here
has. I would like to know more about this as well....
he writes:
I just got a 60 Rambler Deluxe Wagon i6 196 automatic, and I need to
get the torque tube off to replace the u-joint towards the rear
(transmission engages but car will not move, slight squeek sound can be
heard back there, was told by previous owner that it's the u-joint) . I
have a manual for the car and instructions say to raise the car in the
back, then disconnect the suspension bars and emergency brake lines
attached to the torque tube, then unbolt from rearend and you should be
able to pull tube away to have access to pinions and u-joint. Anything
I've read on the subject (including the manual) does not address the
air springs that are also connected to the axle. I've spent some time
underneath the car spraying bolts down with PB Blaster and preparing to
tackle the job, I guess I'm having a hard time visualizing what's
supposed to happen when I follow the instructions, particularly with
those springs. I'm a relative newbie, confident with engine, brakes,
etc., but this'd be my first time working on a drivetrain on a car.
If any of this makes sense and you have any help or advice you could
offer me, I'd greatly appreciate it!
Thanks in advacne for any advice/assist/instruction.
J.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:16:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 4.0L in Eagle
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200609211716.k8LHGBx14692@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: farna@xxxxxxx
"
" The later model HO 4.0L (91-05) is basically the same as the early one.
" There is no knock sensor so you don't have to worry about that. You can
" modify the bell housing and CPS and use a 4.0L flywheel or flexplate.
" The AW4 flexplate would need to be drilled for a 998 torque converter,
" and check fitting to see that it doesn't push the converter in the trans
" to far. I think a Chrysler trans (32RE?) was used on Wranglers and/or
" Grand Cherokees with a 4.0L. That flexplate will work with a 998 (the
" trans is an electronic version of a 998).
rather than drill the aw4 plate, why not just get a wrangler one?
grands never had a 3sp auto. they used the cherokee aw4 the first
year or so, then went to a 4sp tf - 42re iirc.
the wrangler one was named tf999, 32rh, and 32re as years passed. h
for hydraulic and e for electronic but essentially the same box. the
999 is slightly different from the 998 - front pump iirc.
" Possible problems:
" The late model intake may not clear the power brake booster -- it will
" be close! I've seen one Eagle with a late model intake. If the engine
" shakes due to a fouled plug the intake will tap the power booster. The
" booster must be the small diameter type used on the latest model Eagles.
" I don't know when the small one was first used, but early Eagles have a
" larger diameter booster.
hot rod places can also help you find a small booster. rods
frequently have clearance problems.
--
another thing you can take from jeeps - wheels. cherokees and
wranglers have had verious sizes including 15" and 16" rims both 7"
and 8" wide. dunno about fender clearance but they have the right
offset for the eagle. you'd want about 245/60 or 255/60 for those
16x8s...
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:48:15 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] torqu tube Q???
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: J Johnson <imfatdad@xxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <2354363.1158860895900.JavaMail.root@web31>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Spunds like a spun hub, not a ujoint.
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- J Johnson <imfatdad@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I received the following inquiry from a guy on another message baord I
> frequent. I have never been into a torque tube, figured someone here
> has. I would like to know more about this as well....
>
> he writes:
>
> I just got a 60 Rambler Deluxe Wagon i6 196 automatic, and I need to
> get the torque tube off to replace the u-joint towards the rear
> (transmission engages but car will not move, slight squeek sound can be
> heard back there, was told by previous owner that it's the u-joint) . I
> have a manual for the car and instructions say to raise the car in the
> back, then disconnect the suspension bars and emergency brake lines
> attached to the torque tube, then unbolt from rearend and you should be
> able to pull tube away to have access to pinions and u-joint. Anything
> I've read on the subject (including the manual) does not address the
> air springs that are also connected to the axle. I've spent some time
> underneath the car spraying bolts down with PB Blaster and preparing to
> tackle the job, I guess I'm having a hard time visualizing what's
> supposed to happen when I follow the instructions, particularly with
> those springs. I'm a relative newbie, confident with engine, brakes,
> etc., but this'd be my first time working on a drivetrain on a car.
>
> If any of this makes sense and you have any help or advice you could
> offer me, I'd greatly appreciate it!
>
>
> Thanks in advacne for any advice/assist/instruction.
>
> J.
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:03:18 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
From: " Russell T. Neyhart" <rtneyhart@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 4.0L in Eagle
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<1735990.1158861798620.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
...I have 6.5x15 Cherokee/Grand Cherokee wheels on mine, http://home.earthlink.net/~rtneyhart/, with 215/65-15 tires. There are 1-1/2" spacers installed in the pictures with the center caps on. The earlier pictures have no caps as the center of the rear axle protruded too far to install them.
Russ
-----Original Message-----
>From: Sandwich Maker <adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Sep 21, 2006 1:16 PM
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 4.0L in Eagle
>
>" From: farna@xxxxxxx
>"
>" The later model HO 4.0L (91-05) is basically the same as the early one.
>" There is no knock sensor so you don't have to worry about that. You can
>" modify the bell housing and CPS and use a 4.0L flywheel or flexplate.
>" The AW4 flexplate would need to be drilled for a 998 torque converter,
>" and check fitting to see that it doesn't push the converter in the trans
>" to far. I think a Chrysler trans (32RE?) was used on Wranglers and/or
>" Grand Cherokees with a 4.0L. That flexplate will work with a 998 (the
>" trans is an electronic version of a 998).
>
>rather than drill the aw4 plate, why not just get a wrangler one?
>
>grands never had a 3sp auto. they used the cherokee aw4 the first
>year or so, then went to a 4sp tf - 42re iirc.
>
>the wrangler one was named tf999, 32rh, and 32re as years passed. h
>for hydraulic and e for electronic but essentially the same box. the
>999 is slightly different from the 998 - front pump iirc.
>
>" Possible problems:
>" The late model intake may not clear the power brake booster -- it will
>" be close! I've seen one Eagle with a late model intake. If the engine
>" shakes due to a fouled plug the intake will tap the power booster. The
>" booster must be the small diameter type used on the latest model Eagles.
>" I don't know when the small one was first used, but early Eagles have a
>" larger diameter booster.
>
>hot rod places can also help you find a small booster. rods
>frequently have clearance problems.
>--
>another thing you can take from jeeps - wheels. cherokees and
>wranglers have had verious sizes including 15" and 16" rims both 7"
>and 8" wide. dunno about fender clearance but they have the right
>offset for the eagle. you'd want about 245/60 or 255/60 for those
>16x8s...
>________________________________________________________________________
>Andrew Hay the genius nature
>internet rambler is to see what all have seen
>adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
>_______________________________________________
>AMC-List mailing list
>AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
>or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 14:08:09 -0400
From: Colin J Brodsky <cbrodsky@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] torqu tube Q???
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<OFC8F20830.DC4E7AF3-ON852571F0.00635A85-852571F0.0063A127@xxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
I have done this before - once you disconnect the crossbar and shocks and
jack the car up, then the rear should drop down enough to let you just lift
the springs out. They will come out fully uncompressed so much safer than
front spring work.
-Colin
J Johnson
<imfatdad@xxxxxxx
om> To
Sent by: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
amc-list-bounces@ cc
wps.com
Subject
[AMC-List] torqu tube Q???
09/21/2006 10:57
AM
Please respond to
amc-list@amc-list
.com
I received the following inquiry from a guy on another message baord I
frequent. I have never been into a torque tube, figured someone here
has. I would like to know more about this as well....
he writes:
I just got a 60 Rambler Deluxe Wagon i6 196 automatic, and I need to
get the torque tube off to replace the u-joint towards the rear
(transmission engages but car will not move, slight squeek sound can be
heard back there, was told by previous owner that it's the u-joint) . I
have a manual for the car and instructions say to raise the car in the
back, then disconnect the suspension bars and emergency brake lines
attached to the torque tube, then unbolt from rearend and you should be
able to pull tube away to have access to pinions and u-joint. Anything
I've read on the subject (including the manual) does not address the
air springs that are also connected to the axle. I've spent some time
underneath the car spraying bolts down with PB Blaster and preparing to
tackle the job, I guess I'm having a hard time visualizing what's
supposed to happen when I follow the instructions, particularly with
those springs. I'm a relative newbie, confident with engine, brakes,
etc., but this'd be my first time working on a drivetrain on a car.
If any of this makes sense and you have any help or advice you could
offer me, I'd greatly appreciate it!
Thanks in advacne for any advice/assist/instruction.
J.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
AMC-List mailing list
AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:48:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] torqu tube Q???
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0609211133510.31445@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 21 Sep 2006, J Johnson wrote:
> I received the following inquiry from a guy on another message baord I
> frequent. I have never been into a torque tube, figured someone here
> has. I would like to know more about this as well....
Thanks for the forward; tell 'em to join this list, all the
torque-tube weirdos are here!
There is no "rear U joint", v8 or six. There is either a single
U-joint (six) or a CV joint (v8), and only at the front, with
a fairly typical-looking front yoke.
> (transmission engages but car will not move, slight squeek sound can be
> heard back there, was told by previous owner that it's the u-joint) . I
With no data, I'd guess it was an axple problem, not a
driveshaft/ rear end problem. Spun at the hub?
Jack the car, one wheel at a time, put in park, rotate wheel,
see if you can get more symptoms to diagnose with.
I assumed it was a freak, but my 63 classic's pinion shaft
sheared off when pulling away from a stop light, in 1996. Crack
the throttle, revs up like in neutral, and >clink clank clunk<
from the rear as the driveshaft wobbled around in the torque
tube. Cost me $1000 to repair (new ring, pinion, bearings,
and labor) in 1996.
The old part where it broke looked like a thumbnail; a small
half-moon of shiny metal, and the rest greyish, like a very old,
creeping fracture; slow oxidation turned the metal gray. if
I recall it was about 25% connected! It took 33 for the part
to fail!
I hope his problem isn't that; if it is, find a donor rear! If it
is that, it would be disturbing that two failed in the same way.
There's not much else back there to fail! The driveshaft has
a simple splined couple (six) or some sort of weighted balance
splined coupler (v8). It's passive, no moving parts. I suppose
anything can break, but some things seem most unlikely.
I also had an axle shaft spontaneously break on a 1959
American. This was about 1977. It broke in the middle! The
196 flathead was weezy and gutless (paid $50 for the car),
and my mother was driving it at the time, so it was also a
flawed part. The wheel tilted up into the fender, so the
problem was most obvious.
Cast/forged parts do fail I guess, especially when old!
> I've read on the subject (including the manual) does not address the
> air springs that are also connected to the axle.
Factory air springs? Personally ever heard of that (means nothing)
but can't you just disconnect/remove them?
> underneath the car spraying bolts down with PB Blaster and preparing to
> tackle the job,
Prepare to replace all the brake lines; they're ancient, and
almost certainly frozen useless.
> etc., but this'd be my first time working on a drivetrain on a car.
... and a weird one it is! It's alien, but not complex. Not many
people have experience with them. Heavy monster it is though!
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:49:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] torqu tube Q???
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: J Johnson <imfatdad@xxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0609211148350.31445@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 21 Sep 2006, Mark Price wrote:
> Spunds like a spun hub, not a ujoint.
Now why couldn't I just say that?! :-)
Yeah, you damn well want to discover that (straightforward to
fix!) before you pull the torque tube down!!
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:59:25 -0400
From: "Brien Tourville" <hh7x@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] amcEagleNest
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <4512B6DD.19452.23E007F@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
For my money, the AMC Eagle's Nest Forums is the best quality going
right
now.
Eagle-specific, yes, but they do have active "Lobby" and "Pitstop"
areas,
where they have been more than tolerant of my ridiculous rantings and
Gremlin-speak. m.
=== ===
I agree - there's much info. available Eagle specific on the
'Nest site -
other than my being 'BANNED FOR LIFE' , I've nothing bad
to say about the place...
milnersXcoupe
NEW YORK
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:12:51 -0400
From: "Mahoney, John" <jmahoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] you two enjoy this
To: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Tate, Randy"
<Randall.Tate@xxxxxxxxx>, <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Cc: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<E8DF38ACFC17F94998DE284C5CE4582A02202C8D@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Date: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 04:35 PM
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
On Wed, 20 Sep 2006, Mahoney, John wrote:
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1973-AMC-HORNETT-ONE-OWNER_W0QQitemZ320024818984Q
QihZ011QQcategoryZ5357QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> snip
>
> Maverick is almost same condition, and ugly color to boot still got $1200
more bidding and no dumbass questions:
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-Ford-Maverick-Excellent-Condition_W0QQitemZ2
80024696326QQihZ018QQcategoryZ6057QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
OK, I agree with you, that is embarrassing. What a bunch
of lamebrain remarks on the Hornet. And I think they are an
excellent pairing for comparison.
#######################################################
For the record, Tom, you agree with -Eddie-, whose note (below) set me rambling, and, as my time for AMC nostalgia limits me to seeing just one list, Doc's 'script also was dispensed phrom the Phamous Pharma Planet rX in Houston.
That said, and having just landed from a brief fly-by of the Eagle's Nest forum (which, unlike the Badass Gremlin group, I had not even -read- about; how can such a small sector of the car hobby [if AMC is as small as it seems] expect to grow if it remains so divergent?), I, too, agree with what was writ --- even if I'm not fast to fold 5H into a Pampers in hopes it will grow more ethanol. Comfort with unfamiliar colors (in people as well as on cars?) is one of the harder things to master, but, when we turned up our noses at a wildly white/black/pink 1956 Packard Caribbean convertible for $5,000 that looked "loony" in 1976, what did we smell when it's worth $150,000 in 2016? Maybe $1,500,000 in 2056? Sweet success or eau de dumb?
http://www.treasurecoastmustangs.com/1972-ford-ppg.jpg
We can love cars in resale red, bad boy black, or shades of silver (I silently snicker seeing several snob-setters show up in similar silver/gray/beige painted steel --- especially if they run from rental-fleet Taurus to retinal-heat Porsche and they all ran from point A to point B), but we needn't "Yuck!" at purples, limes, or, yes, browns.
Number three: they're likely less common than the "loved" colors, number two [!]: they're likely more valuable in terms of telling the "real" story of the steel they cling to, and number one [!]: they're the cars that the -real- car lovers get all hot and bothered over, or they get a warm, wet, and tingly feeling from. Not like purple rain.
A close-coupled two-tone Pierce comes to mind; to most, it looks totally bogus, but it's exactly how it was built.
It was a unique statement then and it's an even more unique statement now. It's the kind of car that -real- auto history -really- needs to see. Two convertibles come to mind too: two variations on one tune composed by Lincoln.
Both were Full Classics, both went on American auction blocks just this 2006 year: one in April and one in August.
One sold for twice what it may -really- be worth: in black paint/black top piped maroon/maroon leather with gold-plated [yuck, but that's just my opinion, which has no merit in terms of car history] interior trim. Story says: "It was a gift from the president of the NY Yankess to Babe Ruth" (with a 1940 Rhinebeck horse show ticket found under the carpet); provenance says: "Whoa now, this ain't Monopoly money [$407,000] we crazies just throw around."
Except for the story and the g[u]ilt, just another #1 Zephyr. Just not one -really- wonderful set of old wheels.
The other Lincoln was just as #1 in condition and one giant leap above in design: not one-off, but as designed by LeBaron and built by Brunn, it was one of just 20% of the 1935s that were -not- factory-bodied (as if the factory bodies were just chopped liver instead --- oh, how little do our musclecar contingents know!) and it was built on what was probably the finest (remember that when you count K cars!) chassis Ford ever made --- of which just over 1,000 (remember that when you count SC/360s!) were assembled. Do the math. 20% of 1041; maybe 20 of 'em custom-bodied convertible coupes. They didn't just offer SUVs, 2-doors, 4-doors, and [wow!] retractables way back then.
http://www.pontiac.com/g6convertible/index.jsp
Life was very different for America and for Ford: when Hudson (and even Nash) were big and "big" in body styles.
What's more, this car had the last of the "flowing" fenders --- it was one of the last cars that looked -really- great before cars began to look really -good- again in 1955. Twenty years of so-so. As if the mid-'70s went on until the '91 Caprice was spawned until now. Yaris? Versa? And they say that the Gremlin and Pacer looked bad?
V-12, twin sidemounts, whitewalls on chrome wire wheels --- what more could you ask? So it sold for just $6,000 over estimate and just $186,000 less than the black one. So kids, the '35 is just about half the car the '40 is. Money never lies, right?
Wrong. Eyes lie. Its paint blinded the buyers to quality, history, provenance, and value: they were too yellow.
Maybe they were too uncomfortable or maybe they just never learned how wide and fun the -real- world of cars was.
(On a very slim chance that anyone is -really- interested, both Lincolns can be seen on the sites that sold 'em.)
http://www.rmauctions.com/
Maybe Lincoln can learn from AMC: it never put a "grill" on a "Rouge" and no Lincoln was ever bodied by "LeBarn."
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10076&item=330011890011
Maybe Studebaker can learn from AMC too: it never built this chromed-and-two-toned car. Cue your auto volcanoes!
http://tinyurl.com/raqox
"Look at those AMC wheels!"
"What?? They are by Mopar."
Open your yellow umbrellas.
The yellow rain could fall.
In 1989, when J. E. Stiglitz wrote: "There is a fool born every moment"
http://www2.gsb.columbia.edu/faculty/jstiglitz/index.cfm
and altered P. T. Barnum's famous: "There's a sucker born every minute"
http://www.newyorkcitywalk.com/html/interactive_W150th.html
he wasn't thinking about the economic theories of selling collector cars, but both J. E. and P. T. saw something.
On September 20, 2006, when Scott McNealy said: "Selling is what business is all about!", and "Why don't you get together and build a community online?" and "Don't let the lowest common denominator slow you down.", he was not just thinking about how to make today's AMC as big as the big car company his father would proably have led in the early '70s (after he helped to create the Javelin/AMX/SC/Rambler/Machine/etc. AMC that you see as "the" AMC still), but he, too, saw something.
Whatever YOU see when you see a Ginger Maverick, a Brown Spirit, a Lime Ambassador, a two-t P-A, a three-t Packard,
http://www.cincyconcours.com/1999/99-030.jpg
or a yellow Lincoln beside a yellow Gremlin, keep your mind as open as your eyes are: you may see some gold in AMC.
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/837334
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/chronicle/archive/2005/03/14/MNGU6BOT6J1.DTL&o=1
What's next, oddball, ugly, loosers?
Just what are you still waiting for?
Some yellow torqu [sic] tube aliens?
Someone, sometime, who will see AMC?
Guess what, you're that someone.
And that sometime is today.
Seek not some old AMC son.
http://www.sun.com/aboutsun/index.jsp
http://www.sun.com/aboutsun/media/ceo/mgt_mcnealy.html
Seek some newer AMC sun.
Shine on silver or gold.
http://www.amcrc.com/sturb05/N2-2.JPG
Make a "new" AMC better.
Yell! Hell! Rebel!!!!!
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eddie Stakes [mailto:eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 10:22 AM
> To: Mahoney, John; Tate, Randy
> Subject: you two enjoy this
>
> This is a interesting comment below by Doc. The reason why is
> recently on
> fee-bait there was a 73 Hornet for sale. Great looking car I may add,
> however, the poor fellow was fending off a lot of
> questions...ok, fending
> off a lot of comments, by people who had emailed him telling
> him he had a
> 74.
------------------------------
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