AMC-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 38

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Today's Topics:

   1. Western NY AMC cruise night. (Matthew Gracie)
   2. 1967 232 six thermostat housing stud broken in head
      (JohnBherna@xxxxxxx)
   3. NASH Collectors page - AMXFILES.COM - (milnersXcoupe)
   4. Re: AMC-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 23 (Frank Swygert)
   5. Re: Your message to AMC-List awaits moderator approval
      (Frank Swygert)
   6. AMC OBIT: Kenneth Creegan, Milwaukee Body Plant Employee
      (Archimedes)
   7. Re: AMCer's Opinions: Survivor/Vintage vs. Restored
      (Frank Swygert)
   8. Re: Air Cooled Transmissions (Frank Swygert)
   9. Re: Strut bushings (Frank Swygert)
  10. Re: 1968 Rebel 550 = Grille! (Frank Swygert)
  11. AMCer's Opinions: Survivor/Vintage (KENT ANDERSON)
  12. Re: Survivor VS Restored (Michael Bailey)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:31:52 -0400
From: Matthew Gracie <amc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Western NY AMC cruise night.
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <44E720D8.6010205@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

So, I sent a nasty email to the guys who run the 103.3 WEDG cruise night
because they didn't have an AMC week. So they added one.

Anyone near Buffalo, please bring your ride. I know I'm going to be
working on mine.

http://www.wedg.com/cruisenight.html

--Matt


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:48:58 EDT
From: JohnBherna@xxxxxxx
Subject: [AMC-List] 1967 232 six thermostat housing stud broken in
	head
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <51a.210b900.32187eda@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

All,

I was removing the thermostat housing on my 1967 Rambler Rebel 232 six cyl 
thermostat housing and the housing was seized to the long stud.  Not know that 
the housing corroded to the stud I broke the stud.screwed/pressed into the 
head.

Can anyone tell me if the stud has screws into the head or is the stud 
pressed into the head?

I have purchased a left handed screw extractor from Sears and I am prepared 
to try and remove the stud thinking it is a threaded stud.

Any help would be appreciated.

John
San Jose Ca


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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 21:51:24 -0400
From: milnersXcoupe <hh7x@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] NASH Collectors page - AMXFILES.COM -
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<ADVANCES62xc1o8yfog0000006f@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 01:38:30 -0400
From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AMC-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 23
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<ADVANCES6277bieLYCT00000091@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

IIRC there is the issue of one or more internal tubes that are not
present in the air cooled models. Those are required to route the fluid 
to a cooler. I'm not sure if the valve body is different or the air
cooled case could be modified for the tubes. I know one fellow who got
a big finned heat sink from an old electronic power supply (ancient!)
and riveted that to the bottom of the pan. The heat sink covered most
of the pan and was about an inch thick. Should have made quite a
difference!


On August 14, 2006 lotharamc@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

> Yeah, I know. Thats why I said it is air cooled. Its got the air
shute
> (spelling?) and all. I've never tried, but I always thought it looked 
like
> you could drill and tap the locations for the cooling lines similar
to the
> later B/W transmissions. Has anyone ever tried that?
> 
> 


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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 00:30:34 -0400
From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Your message to AMC-List awaits moderator
	approval
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<ADVANCES62Y61LEdyt3000000c9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

To add further -- Tom or I usually check the moderator requests daily
and release all the messages that get held. Any time I post from the
AMX-Files web interface they get held like this. So it may be as much
as 24 hours before a message gets released, but usually no more than
12. No way around it -- some of the messages are actaul spam, which are 
of course deleted. 


On August 15, 2006 Tom Jennings wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Aug 2006, Brien Tourville wrote:
> 
> > Is being held until the list moderator can review it for approval.
> >
> > The reason it is being held:
> >
> >     Message has implicit destination
> 
> 
> >  "Message has implicit destination"...?
> >
> >
> > I didn''t say One Thing about you know who..
> 
> Thinking evil thoughts! Serves you right! Chertoff musta caught you
> thinking unAmericanly! Calling Homeland Security sir!
> 
> But it might be just that you tried to BCC: to the amc-list. The
> mailer robot likes to see it's email address plain and out in
> the open.  Part of anti-spam control. Sorry!


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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 21:20:07 -0400
From: Archimedes <Freedom@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] AMC OBIT: Kenneth Creegan, Milwaukee Body Plant
	Employee
To: Freedom@xxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20060818211631.00c439a8@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed


Another AMC employee RIP (actually, I think he would have been a Nash 
employee; as his employment at the Milwaukee plant appears to have been 
between WWII and Korea.


******************************************************

AMC OBIT: Kenneth Creegan

Lake Country Reporter - Waupaca,WI,USA

... his initial tour in the Navy, Ken worked at American Motors automobile
plant ... is further survived by 11 grandchildren; two brothers Darrell
(Virginia) and James ...

<http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1399&dept_id=541142&newsid=16935766&PAG=461&rfi=9>

******************************************************

-- Marc

-- end --



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 23:42:48 -0400
From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AMCer's Opinions: Survivor/Vintage vs.
	Restored
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<ADVANCES62SWoBDyseV0000050d@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

Mark, if you want to compete, keep it as a "survivor" then. If you're
more interested in enjoying the car and showing it off, even if you're
not likely to win, pull the engine and do a thorough job. You just need 
to decide what you want from the car and hobby. Personally, I'm
surprised when I win something with my highly modified car, but I have. 
I take it and show it because I'm proud of my unique ride and work I
put into it. I'm not competeing -- it's a real daily driver! I hate
when people put "weekend drivers" (but only if it's fair weather!) in
the "daily driver" class. It's unfair, but AMO rules state a car has to 
be driven only 2500 miles (may be 1500?) a year to be classed as a
"daily driver". I take mine back and forth to work and anywhere else I
want/need to go!! So it's not competitive even with other modified
cars. I enjoy showing it anyway. 


On August 18, 2006 markskur1@xxxxxxx wrote:

> Fellow AMCer's,
> I have decision to make with my 74 AMX(32,000 original miles):
> This car is an original, non-restored, survivor:  Original
paint(great condition), glass, interior, chrome, stainless, exhaust
system.  The motor and tranny have never been separated and removed.
> My decision: should I remove the engine to detail and paint, or leave 
in the engine bay and clean and detail only(leaving the original
"patina")?
> I cannot compete with frame-off, rotissoire restored stock vehicles
at car shows.
> If they had a vintage/survivor class I would do well.
> 
> I welcome your feedback/opinions!
> 
> Thanks,
> mark
>
________________________________________________________________________

> Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email 
and IM. All on demand. Always Free.


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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 23:46:28 -0400
From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Air Cooled Transmissions
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<ADVANCES62DEA2VqFnW0000050e@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

There are a couple screw in pipe plugs, but they are pressure test
points. I would be afraid to tap off one of those because it could
reduce pressure somewhere in the tranny and affect
performance/longevity. But then again it may not. Without a thorough
understanding of the fluid flow it would be risky to tap anywhere
though!

On August 18, 2006 markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

> I can check this some day as I have two trans cores laying in my
shed.
> I think there are no holes drilled to do this however. I think the
six cylinder fleet/taxi cars and later postal jeeps are the only source 
for a ready made liquid cooled 35 series trans. I have to get into the
shed at soem point, but it will be a while yet.
> --
> Mark Price
> markprice242ATadelphia.net
> Morgantown, WV
> 
> 
> ---- John Elle <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > For what it's worth.
> > It seems to me this subject came up here locally a couple of years
ago
> > and the general consensus was that air cooled transmissions
actually had
> > pipe plug capped fittings that you could unscrew the pipe plugs
from and
> > screw in lines that could be run to an external cooler if you
wanted to
> > go through that work.
> > I have been wracking my brains trying to be more specific but
senior
> > moments seem to clog up the thought process.
> > Is there any truth to this?
> > John.
> > _______________________________________________
> > AMC-List mailing list
> > AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
> >
> > or go to http://www.amc-list.com


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Message: 9
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 00:05:23 -0400
From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Strut bushings
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<ADVANCES623V5g2oHzG00000510@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

Yes, but as in all tings on volume cars, the biggest "advantage" is
it's cheap to produce and fast to install at the factory, and it's
"good enough" for Joe Shoppingmall. Strut suspension, for example --
derived in part from strut rod suspension (struts also use a strut
rod!). The older Ramblers with double wishbones actually have a better
suspension design! I believe quick and easy factory assembly is why the 
one piece design -- takes a few seconds less for a factory worker to
assemble (x 100,000 plus cars and it adds up!!), and less likely to
make a mistake that ends up going back to a dealer for warranty work.
In some cases I've seen one part design (not necessarily strut rod
bushings) used for the factory installation with the replacement a
totally different design. I can't recall the part, but believe it was
an import... maybe something on my friend's 72 Mercedes??  

The fiddling with the strut rod bushing design was more likely to
reduce the number of replacement parts stocked, make one part fit all
similar applications. 

The parts books don't always illustrate minor changes. They use a
generic suspension diagram and sometimes have two part numbers for the
same part with notes like "used after (dat or serial number)" after one 
part number. So what was the change?? You can't tell. 

On August 18, 2006 Tom Jennings wrote:
 
> I wish I had systematic access to all the parts. A full
> set of parts catalogs would be a start, but I think actual
> side-by-side comparison of hard parts would reveal that a lot
> of different-number parts are really microscopic variations on
> some one part (eg. holes for shocks, anti-roll bars, etc). Those
> of us wrenching and driving would be happy to have wrong-year
> parts that work :-)


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Message: 10
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 00:10:26 -0400
From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 1968 Rebel 550 = Grille!
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<ADVANCES62kzMcvsq9I00000511@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

Pete, don't you dare leave that car home just because the grille is
damaged, or even missing! Take it out and enter in AMC shows anyway. So 
you'll get a few points knocked off, and may not be in the running for
a trohpy, but someone will likely see the car and note that it would
have been a contender if it just had a grille... and might remember
seeing one somewhere and tell you about it! I've had that happen
before. Showing a car that would be complete if it just had one finla
part is a sure way to get a lot of leads!! Wave the flag even if it
does have shell damage -- people will notice it that much more!! 

On August 18, 2006 PSchambs@xxxxxxx wrote:

> Desperation is rapidly setting in - the car will be repainted; engine 
and
> upholstery rebuilt and no front grille!
> Somebody please help - NOS? ; A grille in any half way decent
condition?
> This will be impossible to show without a stock front
grille.............Thanks
> - hopefully -
> 
> Pete  Schambs
> _pschambs@xxxxxxxx (mailto:pschambs@xxxxxxx)


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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:17:29 -0400
From: "KENT ANDERSON" <65marlin327@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] AMCer's Opinions: Survivor/Vintage
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <001301c6c3a2$99aae570$6400a8c0@SONY>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Well, in the For-What-It's_Worth department, my '65 Marlin is a "survivor", save the paint.  I did have it re-painted.  However, everything else about the car is original.  That having been said, the interior COULD use a little help.  The passenger seat bottom is really badly split up the center where the stitching went.  But, I keep that covered with a towel of a suitable color, and no one seems to care.  It's in really good shape, for a 41 year old car.  Yes, the dash pad is cracked in a couple of places, and there are some areas where the stitching has let go, and a couple of small splits in the seats.

The real joy is at the Cruise-Ins, of which it has seen many.  To watch the bland faces of the spectators as they pass by the countless Mustangs, Camaros, Road Runners, etc, then see the smiles begin to spread across their bored faces as they approach a Marlin!  Twenty-eight trophies to its credit as a "survivor" car, and it's not even registered as such.  Okay, none of them is a Best Of Show.  Who cares?  The trophy collection is impressive to folks who see them, and I appreciate the fact someone thought enough of a RAMBLER to go as far as handing it some hardware.  It's a daily driver that stops traffic.  Literally!

Enjoy your car, as is, if it satisfies you.  My theory is; of all the cars built over the hundred years they've been around, if there's ONE that really makes YOU smile.... DRIVE IT!

Kenny

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 08:41:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Bailey <route66rambler@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Survivor VS Restored
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060819154126.12917.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

  I am definitely in the "survivor" camp.  I think
that whatever wear is showing constitutes actual
history as it was made.  

Washing machines, toys, furniture, and many works of
art are just some of the antique collectibles that are
worth more in original condition than restored.  

Cars should be the same.  They were intended to be
consumables, and should be looked upon that way.  Some
consumption is good, the degree is the deciding
factor.  

If it's consumed completely, either by use or weather,
it should be restored.  If not, use it or display it
as found.  I feel racecars with genuine history should
be restored to an "as found" point, rather than back
to new state.

Gorgeous, super-detailed restorations also have their
place.  Today's trailer queens are tomorrow's museum
specimens.  After all, they are for looking at,
perchance to study.  Possibly(maybe), to understand.

In my own collection, I have cars that will be
modified heavily, some that will be "street survivors"
which will be repaired in any way necessary to keep
them running, and some that will be restored as close
to perfection as I can get them.  All have their
place.
m.



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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 38
***************************************