AMC-List Digest, Vol 6, Issue 41
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 6, Issue 41
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- Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 05:23:37 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. (no subject) (setter1)
2. Desert Trip (JOE FULTON)
3. center drag link (Garry Nordstrom)
4. Re: reproduction parts (was no subject) (Eddie Stakes)
5. cool gremlin (Eddie Stakes)
6. AMC radio for sale on ebay (Jay)
7. Re: Need some carb help (Matt Haas)
8. Re: Update on surging 401 (Frank Swygert)
9. Re: 401 crank wanted & IH question (Frank Swygert)
10. Re: 401 crank wanted & IH question (msproviero@xxxxxxxxxxx)
11. wally booth heads? (Eddie Stakes)
12. Re: 401 crank wanted & IH question (Ken Ames)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:13:18 -0400
From: setter1 <setter1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] (no subject)
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <001101c6a8d1$3908d830$6500a8c0@Setter1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hey Folks...
Looking for 2 sets of the interior moldings that start at the back of each door and transverse over the interior wheel well and fasten to the lower rear window molding. These are for two 1968 AMXs. Thanks for your help!
Keith
PS: Purchased two sets of reproductions and both were short by an inch plus! Compared them to the original (both split and were patched once by former owners and broke again) from both cars and they are short! Supplier could not answer why only that other people have made them work! That is an idiotic comment...why are we accepting less then accurate craftsmanship? Maybe I am old school, but when you do something do it right...anyway...a can of black rustoleum won't work on this...:)
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 08:49:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: JOE FULTON <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Desert Trip
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060716154908.99226.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I just got back last night from a 800 mile trip to the
Nevada desert to pick up a 63 Classic wagon which was
an Ebay purchase. The seller gave the location as
"middle of nowhere" and she was right on.
Great scenery and I met some nice folks, believe it or
not.
The wagon is a 63 Classic 770 with tan bucket seat
interior and it has the console. It does have the 196
aluminum block six and auto tranny. I'll be cleaning
pounds of desert dust and litter out of the interior
today.
The car is for sale for $750 for the near term before
I put any money into it. If you want a "car of the
year" old station wagon that needs no body work, just
paint, then this is the deal for you. Grille has the
typical 63 rash, but is not as bad as many. Bumpers
are rust free but not perfect.
Needs windshield. There is a little rust in the lower
tailgate.
I also bought a 64 Classic wagon from the same seller
and am making arrangements to part it out on my way
back from my Bonneville trip in mid-August. The car
has had parts scavenged from it and it would be very
difficult for me to trailer it home (missing rear end
unit and front spindles). It is red and appears to
have a great tail gate. I'll be taking the front
fenders at least, tailgate, interior parts, and some
engine stuff (196 cast iron) as well as the gas tank.
Joe Fulton
Salinas, CA
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 11:38:20 -0500
From: "Garry Nordstrom" <gasnordstrom@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] center drag link
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <000501c6a8f6$3fb5ad50$6400a8c0@MONICA>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I need one for 79 AMX, any good sources, putting my 343 in it to run on the
strip
Garry
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 12:27:02 -0500
From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] reproduction parts (was no subject)
To: "AMC List" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <009401c6a909$5bbb9e20$28f1b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
setter1 wrote:
"a can of black rustoleum won't work on this...:)"
Aw c'mon, once you make a few layers of it, the rustoleum will make up for
that 1 1/2 inches missing? And then you can use the rest of can on whole
car!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4648210441
Seriously, on the plastic interior wheelwell moldings for 68-70 AMX, I have
heard some do not fit properly. I believe they also don't have the metal
riveted brace below the 1/4 glass also. This is good and bad, as that metal
brace with rivets is what canused them to break in that area due to sun
heating up rivets. They are also prone to cracking on the thin spot right
above wheelwell itself, and then in the hole below back window where the pin
goes in, again, because of sunlight.
On the comment about accepting less than accurate craftmanship, you will
find this in many aspects old old cars, not only limited to AMC. It does
rear it's head however over and over. Sometimes it is because the supplier,
other times someone didn't do homework, other times it is combinations of
many things, like item made outside of country, wrong materials, ect. I had
some 68-69 and 70 trim rings for AMX in the early 90s that looked great, but
mounting pins on back were as big as a Greek proctologist's finger. So you
would have to "resize" (drill) the mounting holes if you wanted to use
these. I would not want to use them on any car I was fixing up however. I
sold them for less than what they cost me, but some wanted them anyhows for
cars they were fixing up on low budget and didn't care about judging, only
wanted something to fill the area. Weatherstrips and stripe kits come to
mind.
Right now on the Badassgremlin forum I was griping that no one stocks a four
speed carpet kit for Hornet. Yes, and I have called many vendors on my own
list, only AT carpet available. But talking to some who have tried to put
those in their SC/360's you have problems, as the hump for the Hurst shifter
gets in way and you will have to somehow make up for it somewhere else with
carpet. Ram Air trims for 70, if not mistaken, while a great looking
reproduction, the mounting pins are slightly off. Good and bad. Good is
someone reproduced these, dropping X amount of dollars into a one year item
only. Bad is you CAN'T get them rechromed like originals. They melt into
looks like Playdoh! Originals you can redip into chrome, not a problem,
these repros turn to sheet.
And the mounting pins are off, so you will have to 'resize' the original
holes in your hood. However, this won't show from above, nor below, once
installed.
Somewhere on my website there is a file (might not be published yet) about
variances with AMC. For instance, the red rear reflector lens on 68-69.
There are 4 shades I know of.....all NOS OEM whatever one wished to call it,
made by AMC in Canada. Some are lighter, some darker, all are original AMC
equipment. I have photos here of a huge lot I bought from a dealership in
Sarnia, Ontario, Canada in 1989(?) and they are all lighter, and many were
dated March 1970, and some August 1970 (for 68-69 models). Undrilled.
Another is SX/4 decals. I have three here made within a two year span from
AMC, all 3741517 AMC Part Number SX/4 Legend. All three different, one is
open faced, another closed face, another slight variable from closed face.
But all three AMC NOS made in 1982-84.
What caused some of this? Different suppliers for aMC. They usually went
with the best bid, so whoever lowballed them would get the job for whatever
it was. Nothing wrong with that except you will have differences and
variations on same item from time to time. I like to point out on my
website's PRODUCTION/TECH file the AMC Paint Suppliers are a really good
example:
http://www.planethoustonamx.com/parts/new_paint/index.htm
And if one would put those paints under a reader like they have at Home
Depot, you will have three different variances of same color, just slightly
off, miniscule, but off.
It don't make up for what you got with the interior wheel moldings, and I
would like to see who someone made them fit! If you have that much play,
there is going to be stress, and stress is usually what broke these at the
skinny point directly above wheelwell when new. You could possibly ask for a
refund also if not happy, but keep in mind that if you do find a used almost
40 year old set they can command $200-$400 a set, depending on rarity of
color.
I'll probably have more to say about reproductions later, interesting
thread, especially with the explosion of reproduction items on the AMC
market in the past decade. Some good, some not so good, but neat to see,
simply because it shows people want to fix up these cars, not only AMX &
Javevelin, SC/Rambler, SC/360 and Machine, but others like wagons,
convertibles, Gremlins, Rambler, you name it, nice to see, makes for a
better, and stronger hobby!
Let me know setter1 if you are interested in some fine, used rustoleum
however, still have about several cups left, been pouring it on fire ant
mounds in back yard, maybe in Y3K scientists fidn them and try to bring them
back like Jurassic Park :~P
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.planethoustonamx.com
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 13:46:30 -0500
From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] cool gremlin
To: <baadassgremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "AMC List" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <009d01c6a909$5d987470$28f1b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/LOOK-1974-Gremlin-Fun-Car-Old-like-Me_W0QQitemZ150011321132QQihZ005QQcategoryZ5357QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
cool Gremlin, check out the hoses under the hood, you think Sigorney Weaver
pop out shortly and blast it!
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.planethoustonamx.com
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:55:37 -0400
From: "Jay" <jciampi@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] AMC radio for sale on ebay
To: "AMC LIST" <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <002301c6a909$6de064a0$6fc41ecf@Ciampi>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I have the am/fm stereo radio listed on ebay for those who might be
interested. Eddie Stakes suggested that it should fit the 1974-78 Matador
and the 1975-81 Pacer. I started the bidding off at $2.99 with no reserve,
so if you are interested bid on it.
Jay
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 21:19:03 -0400
From: Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Need some carb help
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20060716211755.03b12580@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
I'm not sure where I went wrong but after having the stupid carb apart a
couple of times, I finally got it working right. Car runs great now and it
only needs a few more things to get it ready for Dayton.
Matt
At 03:20 PM 7/15/2006 -0400, Matt Haas wrote:
>Well, my wagon is continuing it's tradition of fighting me whenever it
>can. I took it to a show last weekend that was a little over 100 miles
>away and it ran great on the highway but wouldn't idle at all. I chalked
>it up to junk in the carburetor so when I got back, I ordered a carb
>rebuild kit. I took the carburetor apart and cleaned it all up (there was
>a lot of trash in it) and put it back together today. The car started up
>okay, ran great for about 10 seconds and died. When I tried to restart it,
>fuel came out of the vent tube. My first try at fixing this was to
>re-install the old needle valve which didn't help. I also re-checked the
>float level (twice) and it's okay according to the rebuilt kit
>instructions and I also snugged up the metering block but I'm still having
>the same problem. The carburetor is a Holley model 1931.
>
>Any ideas where I went wrong?
mhaas@xxxxxxx
Cincinnati, OH
http://www.mattsoldcars.com
1967 Rambler American wagon
1968 Rambler American sedan
===============================================================
According to a February survey of Internet holdouts released by
UCLA's Center for Communication Policy, people cite
not having a computer as the No. 1 reason they won't go online.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 23:34:28 -0400
From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Update on surging 401
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<ADVANCES62pH2q6DqaJ000001a2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
Marty, the 600 will be fine on the 401 for normal street driving. The
smaller venturis (barrels) will improve low speed torque, so it will
feel better off the line and up to cruising speed. You'll lose some top
end performance because the engine will enventually need more fuel/air
than the 600 can provide.
Check this site out:
http://www.classictruckshop.com/garage/shopmathcfm1.asp
Using the calculator there, even at 100% volumetric efficiency the 401
only needs 580 cfm at 5,000 rpm. When you hit 80 I bet you were around
4,000 at the most. The calculator defaults to 90% VE, but 80% is more
like average for a factory stock engine. you might get close to 90 with
a nice intake, headers, and free flowing exhaust system, but even then
85% is more like it. If you were drag dracing and turning the engine up
to 7,000 rpm you'd need the 750 cfm carb -- the calc says 730 at 90%
VE. I think it defaults to 90 to give a little more carb than
absolutely necessary, it doesn't hurt to have a little more, but not a
lot. Most of the guys telling you 600 cfm isn't enough are racing their
cars and want the higher rpm power. Street cars don't need it as they
rarely see over 3,000 rpm on a regular basis.
On July 15, 2006 Marty Bricker wrote:
> Well, it appears that the problem was with the 750
> Carter . I swapped it out with my 600 Edelbrock and
> it's running just great.
> I purchased the 750 cause I was told the 600 would
> not be enough for the 401. Where will I see a
> difference? It seemed to pull great off the line up
> to 70-80 when I backed off. I don't have any
> experience with an engine like this (304 was biggest I
> ever had before). Thanks.
> Marty
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
=============================================================
Posted by wixList Archiver -- http://www.amxfiles.com/wixlist
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 23:47:42 -0400
From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 401 crank wanted & IH question
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<ADVANCES62O3qrrDOMm000001a4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
John, you got that backwards! IHC made a 401 for their bigger trucks
before they started using the AMC 401 in their pickups and Travelalls.
IHC called the AMC V-8 a "400" to help prevent confusion by their
dealers/parts people. So the parts from an IHC 401 won't fit an AMC
401, but parts from an IHC 400 will interchange with the AMC 401.
As stated, all were painted red and all IHC 401s came with a 2V carb
stock, no factory 4Vs as I recall. The 2V carb was the only deviation
from the AMC version. The 304 and 258 were the same as used by AMC
except for the red paint (AMC did paint some CA spec engines red in the
late 60s or early 70s though).
On July 16, 2006 John Elle wrote:
> Roy
> International used AMC engines in some of their applications. I have
> seen 401s, 304's and some I-6 engines. They were painted red.
> SNIP
> In Need Of a 401 Crank! Perfer standard on rods and mains But,email
me
> with
> what you got!
> Or do you know if an IH crank would fit?
> SNIP
> However there is absolutely no relationship between the 400 cubic
Inch
> International engine and the 401 AMC engine. There are no parts that
> will interchange at all.
=============================================================
Posted by wixList Archiver -- http://www.amxfiles.com/wixlist
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 04:25:17 +0000
From: msproviero@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 401 crank wanted & IH question
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<071720060425.20773.44BB112D000597F8000051252200761394019D0A0790019D9F9C03@xxxxxxxxxxx>
AMC 304's were not used in IH vehicles. The 304 was an IH motor. If you find a red 304, I would assume it was just an emissions model that Frank referred to and the red paint is just a coincidence with respect to IH. IH also didn't make a "400" or a "401" of their own according to BinderBulletin.org. The largest IH-made V8 displaced 392ci and they call it "the 392". However, I agree that they referred to the AMC 401 as a "400".
See below for some search results from BB. You'll have to scroll through some of it due to some random search hits.
http://www.binderbulletin.org/forums/faq.php?s=&do=search&q=AMC+232+258+304+401&match=any&titlesonly=0
Try different search combinations including the keyword "AMC". It coughs up some bits of info regarding special tools to service AMC drivetrains and transmissions in the IH world.
-Spro
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>
> John, you got that backwards! IHC made a 401 for their bigger trucks
> before they started using the AMC 401 in their pickups and Travelalls.
> IHC called the AMC V-8 a "400" to help prevent confusion by their
> dealers/parts people. So the parts from an IHC 401 won't fit an AMC
> 401, but parts from an IHC 400 will interchange with the AMC 401.
>
> As stated, all were painted red and all IHC 401s came with a 2V carb
> stock, no factory 4Vs as I recall. The 2V carb was the only deviation
> from the AMC version. The 304 and 258 were the same as used by AMC
> except for the red paint (AMC did paint some CA spec engines red in the
> late 60s or early 70s though).
>
> On July 16, 2006 John Elle wrote:
>
> > Roy
> > International used AMC engines in some of their applications. I have
> > seen 401s, 304's and some I-6 engines. They were painted red.
> > SNIP
> > In Need Of a 401 Crank! Perfer standard on rods and mains But,email
> me
> > with
> > what you got!
> > Or do you know if an IH crank would fit?
> > SNIP
> > However there is absolutely no relationship between the 400 cubic
> Inch
> > International engine and the 401 AMC engine. There are no parts that
> > will interchange at all.
>
> =============================================================
> Posted by wixList Archiver -- http://www.amxfiles.com/wixlist
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 23:50:21 -0500
From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] wally booth heads?
To: "AMC List" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, <baadassgremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <028101c6a95e$bce2fbd0$28f1b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
What are these? I have had 3-4 sets of heads with X on them?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AMC-X-Heads-V-8-block-RARE_W0QQitemZ140006635557QQihZ004QQcategoryZ34202QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.planethoustonamx.com
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 23:23:27 -0600
From: Ken Ames <ameskg@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 401 crank wanted & IH question
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1153113807.44bb1ecf85def@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I believe the BB is referring only to engines built for IHC pickups and similar
sized vehicles. The V-401 and V-461 were used in trucks like 2ton and larger.
Ken
Quoting msproviero@xxxxxxxxxxx:
> AMC 304's were not used in IH vehicles. The 304 was an IH motor. If you
> find a red 304, I would assume it was just an emissions model that Frank
> referred to and the red paint is just a coincidence with respect to IH. IH
> also didn't make a "400" or a "401" of their own according to
> BinderBulletin.org. The largest IH-made V8 displaced 392ci and they call it
> "the 392". However, I agree that they referred to the AMC 401 as a "400".
>
> See below for some search results from BB. You'll have to scroll through
> some of it due to some random search hits.
>
>
http://www.binderbulletin.org/forums/faq.php?s=&do=search&q=AMC+232+258+304+401&match=any&titlesonly=0
>
> Try different search combinations including the keyword "AMC". It coughs up
> some bits of info regarding special tools to service AMC drivetrains and
> transmissions in the IH world.
>
>
>
> -Spro
>
>
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>
> > John, you got that backwards! IHC made a 401 for their bigger trucks
> > before they started using the AMC 401 in their pickups and Travelalls.
> > IHC called the AMC V-8 a "400" to help prevent confusion by their
> > dealers/parts people. So the parts from an IHC 401 won't fit an AMC
> > 401, but parts from an IHC 400 will interchange with the AMC 401.
> >
> > As stated, all were painted red and all IHC 401s came with a 2V carb
> > stock, no factory 4Vs as I recall. The 2V carb was the only deviation
> > from the AMC version. The 304 and 258 were the same as used by AMC
> > except for the red paint (AMC did paint some CA spec engines red in the
> > late 60s or early 70s though).
> >
> > On July 16, 2006 John Elle wrote:
> >
> > > Roy
> > > International used AMC engines in some of their applications. I have
> > > seen 401s, 304's and some I-6 engines. They were painted red.
> > > SNIP
> > > In Need Of a 401 Crank! Perfer standard on rods and mains But,email
> > me
> > > with
> > > what you got!
> > > Or do you know if an IH crank would fit?
> > > SNIP
> > > However there is absolutely no relationship between the 400 cubic
> > Inch
> > > International engine and the 401 AMC engine. There are no parts that
> > > will interchange at all.
> >
> > =============================================================
> > Posted by wixList Archiver -- http://www.amxfiles.com/wixlist
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > AMC-List mailing list
> > AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
> >
> > or go to http://www.amc-list.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
>
------------------------------
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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 6, Issue 41
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