AMC-List Digest, Vol 3, Issue 53
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 3, Issue 53
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- Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 21:24:28 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: 6 cylinder harmonic balancer (Jay)
2. Re: E85 and Old Cars (Peter Marano)
3. E85 and Old Cars (JOE FULTON)
4. 65 alternator (Mann Olegs)
5. Re: 71 Javelin AC bracket question (amcnut@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
6. Re: E85 and Old Cars (farna@xxxxxxx)
7. Re: E85 and Old Cars (farna@xxxxxxx)
8. Re: 65 alternator (farna@xxxxxxx)
9. Re: E85 and Old Cars (Sandwich Maker)
10. Re: wheel stud spins - front drum (Tom Jennings)
11. Re: E85 and Old Cars (Tom Jennings)
12. Re: E85 and Old Cars (Tom Jennings)
13. By decade (Mahoney, John)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:01:41 -0400
From: "Jay" <jciampi@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 6 cylinder harmonic balancer
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <001001c66929$c25258b0$d69b1ecf@Ciampi>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Thanks for the info John.
Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 6 cylinder harmonic balancer
> Jay
> SNIP
> I see a bunch of V8 harmonic balancers for sale on ebay, but almost
> never
> see one for a 232 or 258 engine. They don't give trouble? I guerss
> they
> can be rebuilt? -Jay in FL.
> SNIP
> The harmonic balancers for I-6 engines are not usually stressed into a
> failure mode so there is not a lot of need for one.
> But if they are damaged, the AMC I-6 engine families (258, 232 and 199)
> are internally balanced so that a harmonic balancer can be swapped from
> one to another with no problems. The V8 engine families are external
> balanced which means that the harmonic balancer is part of the balancing
> assembly for the given displacement of the engine and can not be swapped
> (for the most part) to another engine with out rebalancing it for the
> new size. Also the mounting holes for various pulleys very, it is 3 or 4
> holes so depending on the year they are unique again for the engine. In
> addition V8 engines have been used for "race" motors and if the rubber
> is bad high rpm can damage them thus creating a need for them.
> Both the I6 and V8 harmonic balancers can be rebuilt and there are a
> number of companies that do just that.
> John.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:56:55 -0500
From: Peter Marano <PMarano@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] E85 and Old Cars
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <444F7C27.5080404@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
E85 may have a performance advantage in forced induction engines.
Ethanol has ~ 2.6 times the latent heat of vaporization (Btu/gallon),
and the heating value of ethanol is only ~.6 of the heating value of
gasolene (Btu/gallon). This means you could expect the intake air to be
significantly cooler when using E85; possibly cool enough to eliminate
the need for an intercooler. Westech Performance Group measured a
temperature drop of ~100 degrees from the carburetor enclosure to the
manifold, this temperature drop was with gasolene, and E85 should cool
it further.
There is a problem comparing prices however; (I think Tom Jennings said
it) 'we buy fuel in gallons but use it in Btu/mile'. Because E85 has
less Btu/gallon it has to cost less per gallon to cost the same per mile.
Peter Marano
Kenosha WI
>On Tuesday 25 April 2006 08:15, farna@xxxxxxx wrote:
>
>
>>There appears to be no consumer reason for switching to E85. In the vast
>>majority of instances E85 prices closely parallel gasoline prices, maybe a
>>few pennies less. I checked pricing on this site (which has other info and
>>links) - http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/e85toolkit/e85_fuel.html. The only
>>reason to switch to E85 is environmental. In the long run using more
>>ethanol should help US industries other than oil -- especially farming.
>>
>>On April 25, 2006 Todd Tomason wrote:
>>
>>
>>>John,
>>>
>>>I know it's possible. I remember guys doing it back in the late 70's
>>>with straight ethanol. I have heard of issues with fuel line corrosion.
>>>I'm not sure if it's from the alcohol, or the water in the alcohol.
>>>
>>>Todd
>>>
>>>On Monday 24 April 2006 21:51, John wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Has anyone converted a carburetor engine to run on E85? I have been
>>>>reading posts on other sites that talk about rejetting and using
>>>>additives to prevent lubrication issues. How hard would it be to get
>>>>it to work in my 70 Ambo?
>>>>
>>>>John
>>>>E85 Land (Indiana)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>http://www.wps.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>>>
>>>or go to http://www.amc-list.com
>>>
>>>
>>=============================================================
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>>_______________________________________________
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>>
>>or go to http://www.amc-list.com
>>
>>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
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>
>End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 3, Issue 52
>***************************************
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 07:37:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: JOE FULTON <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] E85 and Old Cars
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060426143721.22962.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I think Charlie Nash, George Mason, or George Romney
would be jumping on the E85 bandwagon today. They
might even have a Rambler model called the E85.
When and if it becomes commonly available here in CA,
I think I'll convert one of my old cars to run on it.
Surely a Rambler three speed with overdrive would get
decent mileage on it. And it sure beats paying dues
to ragheads (excuse me, people with textile headwear)
who want nothing from me but my money.
Archer Daniels Midland may stand the most to gain by
E85 right now, but the technology to make ethanol is
pretty simple (although patented biota may complicate
the issue in the future). Too many folks know how to
set up a little production device in a secluded hollar
in the hills.
Joe Fulton
Salinas, CA
Joe Fulton
Salinas, CA
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:06:05 GMT
From: "Mann Olegs" <mannolegs@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 65 alternator
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060426150605.EEAF85C208@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
Hi, Maybe someone can help me. My charging system stopped working . In trying to diagnos the prob. I found a small resistor looking component on the in. fenderwell( next to regulator), that, when I bypass it(jump) the system will charge. Where can I get this piece, or what can I use in place. I tried a coil (chysl.) type resistor w/ no luck. Thanks,Dave
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:50:28 -0400
From: amcnut@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 71 Javelin AC bracket question
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<ADVANCES62J8uT6Ssuo000006d2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
AMC AC compressor brackets don't have anything to do with the intake manifold unless it had a stabilizer bar from the top of the compressor to the intake somewhere. The York AC bracket bolts to the front of the passenger side head. Unless the compressor is really out of balance somewhere, the stabilizer shouldn't be needed---can probably just bolt the compressor to the head-mounted bracket and be just fine with that.
Jeff Reeves
Auburn GA
94 Cherokee
79 Spirit GT
73 Javelin 401
72 Javelin SST
69 Ambassador DPL
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:49:39 -0500
From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Fw: A/C bracket on Edelbrock intake question
To: "AMC List" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: jshrewsberry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <022c01c668e2$b6697520$28f1b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Jef has a dilemma on no provision on a Edelbrock intake for a original AC bracket on his 71 Javelin. Anyone have any suggestions please feel free to comment and be sure to also copy your reply to Jeff as he will appreciate it, thanks in advance to all who may reply.
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.planethoustonamx.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Shrewsberry jshrewsberry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 9:26 AM
Subject: A/C bracket
Hello! I hope all is well.
I was hoping I could call upon your knowledge on my wife's 1971 Javelin SST. I am rebuilding the 360 in it and am almost done with it (it has been 9 months so far).
My wife wanted a little power so some aftermarket products are on the engine - including an Edelbrock intake.
Therein lies the problem... there's no spot on the Edelbrock intake to mount the A/C bracket like on the stock manifold.
Any solutions you could offer me? I could possibly fabricate something here at the shop.
Thanks,
Jeff Shrewsberry
FCx Performance
e-mail: jshrewsberry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Phone: (614) 253-1996 x1165
Fax: (614) 253-2033
Web Site: www.fcxperformance.com
=============================================================
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:42:54 -0400
From: farna@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] E85 and Old Cars
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<ADVANCES62mJWEsBk3100000707@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
I did some more reading too. Yes, closer to the "corn belt" where ethanol is made it's a bit cheaper. Part of the problem with the pricing in areas far from production facilities is transportation. Ethanol or E-85 can't be pushed through pipelines because it draws to much moisture along the way, so it all has to be trucked or railed around. I'm sure someone will figure out a way to either treat it so it won't draw so much moisture and/or erect large water separators/filters at pipeline terminals. That probably isn't practical now, but as volume goes up it should be. The pipelines use water "plugs" to separate "shipments" now since gasoline and water don't mix. They'll have to come up with something else (hey, maybe a gasoline "plug", or a thicker oil that won't mix easily, even vegetable oil -- the "plugs" can be reused...) to separate "shipments" since water mixes so well with ethanol.
On April 26, 2006 Todd Tomason wrote:
> The difference in price seems to depend on where you are. When I've bought it
> in Missouri it's between 30 and 60 cents less than gasoline.
>
> Todd
>
> On Tuesday 25 April 2006 08:15, farna@xxxxxxx wrote:
> > There appears to be no consumer reason for switching to E85. In the vast
> > majority of instances E85 prices closely parallel gasoline prices, maybe a
> > few pennies less. I checked pricing on this site (which has other info and
> > links) - http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/e85toolkit/e85_fuel.html. The only
> > reason to switch to E85 is environmental. In the long run using more
> > ethanol should help US industries other than oil -- especially farming.
> >
=============================================================
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:45:31 -0400
From: farna@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] E85 and Old Cars
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<ADVANCES62yAphwFutJ00000708@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
You can actually get a permit from the Feds to produce your own alcohol for combustion purposes. I don't know what the red tape and all is, or how practical. It's getting close as far as cost to produce vs. buying gasoline though!
On April 26, 2006 JOE B FULTON wrote:
> When and if it becomes commonly available here in CA,
> I think I'll convert one of my old cars to run on it.
> Surely a Rambler three speed with overdrive would get
> decent mileage on it. And it sure beats paying dues
> to ragheads (excuse me, people with textile headwear)
> who want nothing from me but my money.
>
> Archer Daniels Midland may stand the most to gain by
> E85 right now, but the technology to make ethanol is
> pretty simple (although patented biota may complicate
> the issue in the future). Too many folks know how to
> set up a little production device in a secluded hollar
> in the hills.
>
> Joe Fulton
> Salinas, CA
> Joe Fulton
> Salinas, CA
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.wps.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:54:19 -0400
From: farna@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 65 alternator
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<ADVANCES62LtosJ3Ih70000070b@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
That's more likely a diode or choke coil -- and most likely the latter. It shouldn't be a resistor. Choke coils were used for AM radio suppression from the alternator. If that's what it is then you can simply eliminate it. You might get some noise over the AM radio if you still use it though.
Where do the wires attached to it go, and what color are they? If they go from the regulator into the harness, I'm betting on the choke coil. If it's between the reg and the alternator itself it *could* be a diode. Diodes are usually round and have a stripe (or two) around the body near one end.
On April 26, 2006 Mann Olegs wrote:
> Hi, Maybe someone can help me. My charging system stopped working . In trying to diagnos the prob. I found a small resistor looking component on the in. fenderwell( next to regulator), that, when I bypass it(jump) the system will charge. Where can I get this piece, or what can I use in place. I tried a coil (chysl.) type resistor w/ no luck. Thanks,Dave
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.wps.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
=============================================================
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 13:03:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] E85 and Old Cars
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200604261703.k3QH34w26936@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: JOE FULTON <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"
" I think Charlie Nash, George Mason, or George Romney
" would be jumping on the E85 bandwagon today. They
" might even have a Rambler model called the E85.
"
" When and if it becomes commonly available here in CA,
" I think I'll convert one of my old cars to run on it.
" Surely a Rambler three speed with overdrive would get
" decent mileage on it. And it sure beats paying dues
" to ragheads (excuse me, people with textile headwear)
" who want nothing from me but my money.
"
" Archer Daniels Midland may stand the most to gain by
" E85 right now, but the technology to make ethanol is
" pretty simple (although patented biota may complicate
" the issue in the future). Too many folks know how to
" set up a little production device in a secluded hollar
" in the hills.
imho the best fuel with mid-range potential is biodiesel.
you might recall that when you mix lye and tallow, you get soap
[sodium stearate] and glycerin. wood ash will do; then you get
potassium stearate. mix alcohol and vegetable oil [or tallow, or any
other fat/oil] in the right conditions and you get biodiesel and
glycerin. you can pour it straight into the tank of any diesel - or
other oil burner, like your furnace - and it lubricates the injection
system better than petrodiesel, burns cleaner than petrodiesel, and
even makes more power [a bit] than petrodiesel.
the chemistry is simple and the technical issue of efficient
manufadture is already being addressed, by many. the biggest hitches
i see are 'wax point'; without additives it isn't reliably usable much
below freezing [though additives will surely be developed], and the
byproduct glycerin. there are industrial and cosmetic uses for it -
but can you buy enough products to consume a gallon of glycerin a
week?
an acre of rapeseed [aka canola] produces a ton of oil. an acre of
oil palms produces 5 tons.
ps. 'b100' is industry shorthand for pure biodiesel. you'll often see
'b20', 20% bio/80% petro; low temp operation isn't a problem with this
mix. and btw all diesel jeep libertys leave the factory with b5 in
their tanks.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:54:34 -0700
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] wheel stud spins - front drum
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1146077674.5364.4.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
> I measured one I'm replacing and there is a .035 or so off-center issue with
> it which was causing the brakes to grab the drum as it went around. I'm
> betting that they were both turned incorrectly as the surface is nice and
> smooth and round, and they both would grab.
Since the drum is turned off-center, mounting them on different hubs
won't solve the problem.
> So I want to swap my front hubs, to the "new" drums, so I drove out the
> studs till the hub and drum separated. Then I put the hub in the new drum
> and drove the studs back in.
You must buy new studs; NAPA stocks them, and they're cheap. Replacement
studs have serrations (knurls) that make a force-fit; factory studs were
swaged on top, holding drum to hub.
> Second, the drum does not want to stay with the hub anymore.
Assuming that the hub is good, it will do no harm if the drum is not
swaged tightly to the hub, unless you plan on driving with the wheels
removed :-) -- the wheel and lugnut will hold the drum to the hub, just
as it does on rears. (Rears have 2 or 3 small screws that retain the
drum to the hub, but it's just convenience, it doesn't do any serious
locating.)
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:56:12 -0700
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] E85 and Old Cars
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1146077772.5364.7.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 04:20, Todd Tomason wrote:
> The difference in price seems to depend on where you are. When I've bought it
> in Missouri it's between 30 and 60 cents less than gasoline.
Thats what I read too... and why is cleaner air not a 'consumer reason'
to run e85? Respecting the issues of old dirt loosening with alcohol,
etc.
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:00:36 -0700
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] E85 and Old Cars
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1146078036.5364.12.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 07:37, JOE FULTON wrote:
> I think Charlie Nash, George Mason, or George Romney
> would be jumping on the E85 bandwagon today. They
> might even have a Rambler model called the E85.
I agree with this...
And it sure beats paying dues
> to ... who want nothing from me but my money.
...but surely, greed transcends culture, and we have plenty of
home-grown corporate bloodsuckers right here, Anglo-Saxon and otherwise.
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:24:20 -0400
From: "Mahoney, John" <JMahoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] By decade
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<E8DF38ACFC17F94998DE284C5CE4582A462BD3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
In 2006, we're "into" cars, even if we're not into American motors cars. Honda made almost $2 billion in the quarter last; Delphi's unions made no great effort to ensure the biggest GM supplier might last. Toyota's market success rose; Ford's market share fell: each far beyond what old American motors had imagined.
In 2006, Renault owned forty-some percent of Nissan and Nissan's profit was up almost ten percent; in 1986, Renault owned forty-some percent of American Motors and AMC's profit was almost non-existent. Nissan might make almost a billion more than it'd forecast; AMC might almost make it to when the next interest payment comes due on its "overwhelming" debt.
Few in America are "into" collectible Renaults and fewer may be "into" collectible Nissans; many more are still "into" and -into- AMC. So go figure the unimaginable world of American motors and of collector cars.
Last week, I asked if American motors had Carma or Carisma. If the one was good for American motors, was the other one bad for AMC, or were both of them preordained for success as coming Toyota model names? A Camry for your thoughts; a penny (which, in days of $3 gasoline, won't buy rides) for your Camaro comparison, or a pence (which, in days of Camilla, Duchess of Cornwall, won't buy Birkhall or Balmoral) for your Camargue communiqu? on American Motors' past.
To some, AMC was once-and-forever Ramblings by Nash; to others, AMC was Chevrolet without bow tie; to still others, AMC was only Nash, Hash, Rambler, and Gremlin-Pacer jokes, so American Motors always had Carma and almost had Carisma. That's why I told you to start searching in the last quarter of American Motors history. That's why I also told you to stop your AMC at the end of Feb. That's why history is worthwhile.
On 2/1/76, AMC Carma was the cover of Chilton's Automotive Industries magazine. AMC's new Carisma was the Pacer, America's most modern car design. (Plus "Carisma" was Richard Teague's most beloved car name...) On 2/6/66, AMC's new post of Vice-President was filled. The styling studio would be filled with Carma, Carisma, and cars AMC never built. And on 2/28/85, AMC Carma Carisma were forever changed as a one-eyed dreamer drove away and home to California.
Carma meant "It will always take an artist."
"You'll see the boxes disappear!" he said.
He was an "autoholic" to his last AMC day.
http://www.amcpacer.com/images/kenosha-28-teague.jpg
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