Re: Back Sliding/Land Speed Records (turbo 182ci AMC six)
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Re: Back Sliding/Land Speed Records (turbo 182ci AMC six)

Hi Frank,

I got yr msg re: specs for the 182 ci AMC six at bonneville -- I lost the message already, duh.

It seems unlikely that the engine I have here was the same one at Bonneville; the mechanic (Gary) said it was the Willow Run test motor; it's got a left-hand-only dry sump pan.

However, it's clear that Navarro probably knew how to squeeze the AMC six more than anyone at that point; making a duplicate would have been straightforward enough. Since the mechanical dimensions you gave are the same as this engine, it's likely it's a copy, of the block anyways. Mine's got the factory oil block castings still in place too, though it does seem to have been rigged somehow for dry sump. It also has the aircraft fuel pump on the end of the camshaft, with cast aluminum "Navarro" timing cover (two of those).

However the specs that I am sure of are identical. The block I can measure; but other parts were merely 'in the same pile' and I know some of them were NOT the 1967/1968 motor:

* The cast-stainless turbo manifold I have is for a FUEL INJECTED motor; it's a copy of the manifold from the later, twin-turbo, Hilborn-injected six. The early Navarro engine was carburetted. It's possible that the FI manifold is simply the early manifold with FI bosses added/drilled, or maybe it was totally different (but engineering on the smallish scale of Navarro's would hint at heavy design reuse).

* The cam I have (Winfield) has 244 degree duration; I don't know enough about cam design to suss out what this cam was designed for: specs are here http://www.wps.com/AMC/Navarro-turbo-motor/Navarro-Six- camshaft-specs.txt. Thanks a million, again, to Randy Guynn for extracting this data from the lumpy stick. Chances are great that this is a later cam, likely the twin-turbo motor.

* I have a number of pistons, some are really odd sizes, all are True Forged, some brand new/never used, most incomplete sets. Probably astronomically expensive castings at this point.

* Still haven't got in touch with the guy who has the conn rods; he never answers the phone. I'm hoping he'll part with them, in exchange for other Navarro goodies I have. (After this potential swap I'll AMClist/eBay some of those trinkets, like 60's Moon tachs for a six! and such.)





On Dec 3, 2005, at 11:19 AM, farna@xxxxxxx wrote:

NEGATIVE. The "American Spirit" never made a CLASS A LSR RUN. Before the
rain-out it DID make runs in the lower classes. It just wasn't able to challenge
the all-out Land Speed Record. There was a 407.45 mph speed recorded -- enough
to break the Class B (305-488 CID) record, but not fast enough to break the
Class A (Unlimited) record. I don't know who (if anyone) keeps records other
than the Class A absolute top speed record. Bob Summers' top speed was
officially 409.277 mph. Breedlove broke the Class B record by 61.695 mph, but
really wanted the Class A record.

I have the specs on the engines for all three classes the car ran (B, C, and D)
in an official AMC press release. The info for breaking the class B record WITH
THE PISTON ENGINED CAR comes from a Shell gasoline ad in late 68 or early 69 (or
was it Champion plugs? I'm looking for the ad now!). It CLEARLY states the speed
and CLASS B record. I know this isn't the Class A LSR, but it's still an
officially recorded 407.45 mph speed.

I am incorrect on using the nose for the "Spirit of America". I got that part
turned around -- tha design of the "American Spirit" was based on the "Spirit of
America" design, I don't know if any parts were interchanged -- most likely not.

--
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Independent
Magazine" (AIM)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html
(free download available!)

-------------- Original message ----------------------
The "American Spirit" was a (slightly obscure, overshadowed by Breedlove's
later attempts in rocket and jet cars) land speed record attempt by
Breedlove
with AMC as a sponsor. They broke the Class B record by going 407 mph with a
sleeved 390 block. I made a post that got lost, apaprently, will have to
retype the particulars and try again! This was in a three wheeled car that
Breedlove built. The forward fuselage was later used for the jet powered
"Spirit of America". 

Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 02:35:28 -0500
Subject: RE: Back Sliding/Land Speed Records
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx

Ken, you are right that the American Spirit never made a record run.

I think Frank may have been confused with Craig's LSR run of 407 mph on Aug.
5,
1963, in the Spirit of America, powered by a J-47 jet engine.

Regarding Internal combustion engine wheel-driven LSR's of that era, on Nov.
15,
1965, Bob Summers drove his "Golden Rod", equipped with (4) Chrysler engines
to
a wheel-driven LSR @ Bonneville of 409 mph.

This was the record Breedlove was trying to beat with the American Motors
wheel
driven streamliner, the "American Spirit". The American Spirit was powered by
a
modified fuel-injected, supercharged 390. Unfortunately, due to bad weather,
both ends of the 10 mile course were under water, so Craig was not able to
even
challenge the record.

<snip>

So unfortunately, due to bad weather, mudslides, etc., there is still no
certified Land Speed Record of 200 mph or more by an AMC. Over the years I
have
had the honor of speaking with Craig Breedlove at various car shows. Craig
Breedlove has always been a hero of mine, and when I asked him, Craig
Breedlove
signed the glove box of my 69 BBB 390 4sp AMX with a black sharpie pen. You
can
see pictures of Craigs signature on my AMX that I posted over at the AMC
Forum.
Sincerely, Pat South Bay AMX Club











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