Re: Hobby businesses illegal? NOT!

[farna@xxxxxxx]

Randy, I did state that it's up to individuals to check on their state laws -- like I did. I don't have to claim AIM as a business because I make less than $1000 a year, and sometimes even lose money, but I do. The legal world states states that if a project is simply "for profit" it is a business. But small "cottage industry" businesses are legal, and you don't even have to have a sales tax number in most states if you have limited sales within that state (like mail order -- I seem to recall GA being under $500 of state sales, but that's been a while). 

Check this site out:

http://www.alloysilverstein.com/tips/tax/2000/03202000.htm

and these:
http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/ObjectID/A25BA1FC-11A6-4AD8-B8E08099DD2967C0/catID/1F3E99ED-59E6-41BB-A5E86BEDE901FD0E/111/159/116/ART/

and this one:
http://homebiztools.com/ideas/hobby_business.htm

http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/0,4621,315427,00.html

This crap about people running a small hobby business from their home, selling a few parts, or even making a few specialized parts being illegal is just that -- BS. There's nothing illegal about it, and most states and cities DO NOT require a business license unless you're using your home as a store front or have continuous business related traffic. Mail order business is fine, and even small manufacturing (like in a garage). If you're hiring employees it's starting to get a little big to be on the line between hobby and full fledged business, but in many states it's considered a small business or cottage industry and there are special rules. You are stating YOUR OPINION that people who do this are fraudulent. Those who rip people off are, those who operate with sincereity and honesty are not. I don't personally think they are being dishonest when they advertise themselves as "Hank's AMC Parts" or whatever. I did, however, agree with your suggestion that it would be a nicety!
  if they openly let people know they were a part time or hobby business. Most do, if not in ads then during contact.

And it happens all the time in nearly all industries. The guy who advertises he can be reached for computer help, and charges an hourly rate. The fellow who advertises "handy man" type work in his off time. I've done "side jobs" for people -- everything from assisting with building a house from the ground up to installing a door, to doing a disc brake conversion for someone in their yard. According to your definition we are all FRAUDS and doing ILLEGAL work. 

Most hobby businesses DO make a profit at least SOME of the time, but don't expect to make a STEADY profit, nor ENOUGH of a profit to "quit the day job". At that point it becomes a full fledged business. If I'm not mistaken you used to do work in your personal garage for people for money. So at one point you were a FRAUD and ILLEGAL just like the guys you're crusading against. The difference is your hobby became a full fledged business. 

No, I'm not condoning fraudulent business. I'm condoning people's rights to run a small, limited business from their homes. They should be claiming any income on their federal and state taxes, but that's up to the individual until they are somehow "caught". That isn't likely, even during an audit by the IRS unless they are making gobs of money, enough to have savings or property not equivalent to what they claim as income on their tax forms. I don't know of any small AMC vendor making that much. A few thousand a year? Certainly. More than say $10K? Very few, if any. In the end it's a matter of the individual's integrity as to how much (if any) they claim on taxes. The only stipulation in the law is that if you want to claim loses, you have to claim your hobby as a business. 


Please don't address me on further this subject -- we obviously disagree. That's fine too -- you have the right to disagree with me, and I you! Since all we have done is establish that we will always disagree on the main points, I see no point in continuing any dialogue between us, in private or public. It 's up to list members to decide if they want to continue the discussion as relevant to AMC, but I doubt that's the case. 

--
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Independent 
Magazine" (AIM)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html
(free download available!)
			

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Guynn <amx69@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Frank,
> 
> Are you now making excuses FOR FRAUDS to be perpetuated on the Hobby??? 
> Does that mewan it is O.K. to make $100,000.00 this year but call it a 
> HOBBY?? And since it is Part Time, you NEVER have to claim a dime???? 
> And you can cut prices because you have NO OVERHEAD????
> 
> So Frank, I guess this posts means you are FOR FRAUD in the hobby. 
> Frank, You and I both know, there is NO reasonab;le exccuse, just LIES 
> that pepople use to GET BY with their so called HOBBY business. So 
> Frank, Would it be O.K. if a person went into MANUFACTURING parts to 
> sell, but NEVER becoming a business??./ At what point is it a Hobby, and 
> at what point is it a Business??? Is it only a Hobby if you already have 
> a Full time job?? But yopu make a few thousand a yerar off the Hobby???
> 
> States already have established EXACTLY when a person SHOULD go file for 
> a LEGITIMATE business licenses. But I guess you, along with the BLESSED 
> TO STEAL FRAUD crowd sees it DIFFERENTLY. I guess you think ''as long as 
> I can GET AWAY with it, it is NOT FRAUD" Frank, the REAL POINT when a 
> business SHOULD become legal is when a person sets out to Buy, 
> Manufacturer, and RESELL the parts for a PROFIT.
> 
> please quit giving excuses out to the FRAUDS. Justr exactly what is it 
> about LEGAL BUSINESS that folks have a problem with.
> 
> Regards,
> Randy Guynn
> 
> 
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